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New Full System: Carrier Infinity v Daikin Fit, Humidifier, & REME Halo

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kashahkashah

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Apologies for the long post, want to make sure I cover all my bases here.


~2700 sq. ft. house, northern NJ, built 1985

existing system: original 1985 Trane 162k BTU furnace, 5T Goodman unit from 14 years ago

single supply trunk across my basement (would consider creating multiple zones in the future, not now)

master br is on the opposite end of the house from mechanicals and on the upper floor, air pressure is very weak here because of the twists and turns and overall distance

as a result we have a supplementary Fujitsu Halcyon multi-split from ~10 years ago (original owner) in the attic/deck to help the master and office which is next to it

I've gotten 5 companies to come out and give me quotes. I've eliminated 3 based on their quotes already. I'm down to 2 quotes, one which sells Carrier and the other which sells Daikin (also Carrier, but say it isn't for me)


Quote 1
Daikin FIT System w/DKN One+ Thermostat
DX17VSS601AA
DM97MC1005CN
REME HALO (non-LED)
Aprilaire 600, controlled by the DKN One+
Daikin Asure Full System 12 Years Parts and Labor Warranty for A/C, Coil and Furnace

Quote 2

Carrier 5-ton Infinity Series 26.0 SEER GreenSpeed condenser model# 24VNA660A003
Carrier 5-ton up-flow evaporator coil model# CAPMP6024ALA
Carrier 120,000 BTU 97% efficient Infinity Series direct vent modulating variable speed warm air gas fired furnace model# 59MN7B120C24—22
Carrier Infinity Control one touch Wi-Fi programmable thermostat model# SYSTXCCITC01-C
Aprilaire Air Cleaner 2210 (this was itemized, other people don't mention it, I can ask if necessary)
Aprilaire 600M (says the proprietary Carrier thermostat doesn't work with humidifiers, so spec'ed a 600M instead of 600)
Reme Halo LED
2 year labor, 10 year parts (they register for me)


I like both vendors, first one (Daikin vendor) has better reviews, but they are good at managing their online rep fwiw.

Concerns include:
* oversizing the system for my house, Daikin guy says 120k BTU is overkill and thermal kill switch will go off, other guy says "would only happen if your duct work was undersized, it isn't"
* undersizing the system for my house, Carrier guy says 100k BTU is not enough and I'll be cold if it's single digits
* humidifier creating mold, this is '85 run of the mill construction, no proper vapor barrier, etc. Windows are not great
* REME Halo LED is no good, go w/the old school one w/the regular UV bulb
* REME Halo UV is no good, LED one is way better, lol

No one did a Manual J calc, so they are basing their estimates w/their eyes, a first floor and basement walk through, what I've told them, and looking at the existing system.

Things I hear:
* Daikin is 'rebranded Goodman'
* Carrier has expensive parts, isn't what it used to be
* They oversized your system to get you rebates
* They undersized your system because they are fools

etc. etc. etc.

I really don't want to mess this up. I've no strong conviction on one set of equipment vs. the other.

Help?
 
#2 · (Edited)
That’s a pretty chinchy manufacturer warranty on the up to 26 SEER Carrier outdoor unit, just a basic 10 years compressor, parts and coil.

The Daikin Fit has a 12 year parts, coil and if compressor ever fails to original register owner in the 1st 12 years you get a brand new outdoor unit, not a replacement compressor that Carrier gives you for up to 10 years.

The extended labor warranty alone from Daikin is a major perk 12 years vs 2 years.

What is the AHRI number of the Daikin, to get some efficiency rating numbers.

The up to 26 SEER Carrier is actually 19 SEER2 and 12 EER2 according to AHRI if homework was done correctly, which should easily be higher than the Daikin. Course your not comparing like for like outdoor systems.

The Daikin is a side discharge unit, and has a smaller footprint and can be mounted inches from a wall unlike the vertical discharge standard configuration Carrier.

Both furnaces should apply for rebates from your state and the A/C on the Carrier. Also both furnaces should apply for the Federal Tax Credits as they require 97% minimum. Your state rebates may only need to be 95%>? Carrier A/C should apply for the Tax Credits, without a AHRI number for the Daikin can’t tell if that system applies for the Tax Credits or rebates.

the Daikin has an all Stainless Steel HX, whereas the Carrier shows one section to be Aluminized Steel and Stainless Steel on the other section and is modulating with a variable speed motor. The Carrier furnace has a standard 10 year parts warranty whereas the Daikin is 12 years. The Daikin comes with a limited lifetime HX warranty as does the Carrier and if the HX fails in the 1st 12 years ( Daikin ) you get a new furnace.

The thermostat on the Daikin comes with a 12 year warranty that you need to register, not sure what the warranty is on the Carrier thermostat bid.

Course the longevity and reliability will fall under having a properly sized system and ductwork, quality install and startup and commissioning of system more than brand.

Pay to have a accurate load calculation done 1st to see what sizes you need. There are free ones online and there a some better ones you pay a small fee. Course you need to know the structure of your residence.
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
> What is the AHRI number of the Daikin, to get some efficiency rating numbers.

Certified Reference Number: 207172921

AHRI 210/240 - 2017

Cooling Capacity (A2) - Single or High Stage (95F), btuh: 54000
SEER 16
EER (A2) Single or High Stage (95F): 8.3

AHRI 210/240 - 2023

Cooling Capacity (A-Full) - Single or High Stage (95F), btuh: 53000
SEER2: 15.5
EER2 (A-Full) - Single or High Stage (95F): 8.0


> ...on the other section and is modulating with a variable speed motor.

Forgive my ignorance, is this a bad thing? Are both these systems not modulating w/variable speed blower motors?

> Filter

Daikin guy said he'd match the other quotes Aprilaire 2210


Finally, after all the rebates, PSEG (gas) and JCPL (electric), the prices come out basically the same, within fifty bucks of each other believe it or not. I didn't want to post the prices since it seemed like it was against the rules of this forum and I'm a newbie here.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Both look to be modulating furnace and variable speed blower, which is more of a top of the line furnace than two stage. The Daikin on paper is the superior furnace IMO, a better manufacturers warranty, and both HX sections are made of Stainless Steel whereas the Carrier has one section Aluminized Steel and the other section is Stainless Steel. Both types should be fine, but if I was given a choice I’d take SS over Aluminized Steel, but hey that’s me..

Make sure they do one of these things before you sign a contract, a startup/commissioning report.

https://www.energystar.gov/sites/default/files/National HVAC Commissioning Checklist _Rev 11.pdf

The AHRI number you gave shows a slightly different model number of than AHRI, the last two digit is different of outdoor unit, says Major or Minor Revisions. Thinking that just means a newer series.

https://www.ahridirectory.org/

Whichever brand model you ultimately decide on, you will know fairly quickly how well system is working to your satisfaction in heat and cool, by the amount of times you have to call them back under the labor warranty period to tweak, modify adjust etc. if you do call them, you will also know how well the Tech. they send out is trained on your system by how long it takes them to diagnose correctly your issue(s) and make repairs/adjustments in a short amount of time.

If your proactive on your new system, ask them the sequence of operation so you have some understanding of how the heat and cool suppose to work under different conditions such as when system is near the thermostat set point and when the equipment is farther from the thermostat setpoint. What happens to the outdoor unit, what happens to the blower speed, what happens to the heat etc. if they have a good understanding of your system ( as your getting a complicated HVAC system ) they should not have any issues telling you what happens/how system works in different conditions.
 
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
Hey thanks again


DX17VSS601AA is supposed to be DX17VSS601BA (BA at the end). He's updating my quote.

When I look this up in the AHRI Directory you provided I'm surprised to see the SEER2 rating so low, 15.3, close to the "least efficient" side of the spectrum.

It appears that the Daikin FIT is also made in the US which is a huge selling point to me tbh.

I'm going with that system. Still a bit nervous about the heat load calcs but he's been very clear "your house would be 100% fine with 80k BTU, I sized 100k because I need 'the drive' for the AC".
 
#6 · (Edited)
Yes the Daikin has the lower ratings than the Carrier, but you’re not comparing apples to apples efficiency levels.

Both furnaces alone should qualify for the Federal Tax Credits and your state money in your pocket rebates as they need to be 97%> for the tax credits, your state rebates may need to meet only 95%> you should check and/or have this Contractor check, it’s the least they can do to earn your business.

The AHRI number for the Daikin furnace is 7424276 for the Carrier furnace is 204032250.

https://www.ahridirectory.org/

The A/C for the Tax Credits are as follows, you can also check your state to see what the minimum threshold in efficiency rating they want. The Carrier should qualify.

As far as I know this is current.

https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=845535&d=1678474996

It’s what you want, a higher efficiency rating with the Carrier and both the A/C and furnace qualified for the Tax Credits, or the side discharge, smaller footprint, mounted inches from a wall, lower efficiency that qualifies for the furnace only on the Tax Credit, ( need to check local rebates for minimum threshold to see what qualifies ) but a superior manufacturer warranty on the furnace, coil and outdoor unit ( coil has a 12 year warranty compared to Carrier 10 years coil warranty ) and the all SS HX sections and a far superior extended labor warranty backed by Daikin.

“It appears that the Daikin FIT is also made in the US which is a huge selling point to me tbh”

Chances it will say assembled in the USA, ( if different let me know ) even for the Carrier, depending on manufacturer and tier line it will also say assembled in Mexico or China. My friend has the Trane brand, two in his residence, it says assembled in the USA on the outdoor unit electrical data plate and Air Handler, the outdoor fan motor on each unit says made in Vietnam on one unit, the other outdoor unit fan motor says made in India, the trinket parts such as capacitors, compressor contactor, service valves etc. probably come from Mexico or China. It’s like that for all brands nowadays, Carrier, Lennox, Rheem etc. etc.
 
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Discussion starter · #8 ·
Wow, I had no idea about the federal level credits. Huge.

Bazooka Joe - thank you so much for your help today. I signed the contract with the Daikin guy. They seem stand up, humored all my Qs, etc.
 
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kashahkashah
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