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bluestealth

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello, I recently completed a new barn that's 40'x60' with 12.5' walls and a concrete floor. It also has an open area in the upper level for storage that's about 12'x60'. I recently had the barn insulated with R19 in the walls and open cell foam in the ceiling. Before insulation, it would get to about 109 degrees on the upper level. Now on our hottest day of the summer (93 deg with 107 deg heat index) with insulation, it doesn't get hotter than 85 deg and the main level around 82. I was really impressed by the difference!

In the winter, I'm planning to heat the building with my outdoor wood furnace mainly to keep the building above freezing. As far as A/C, my neighbor who works for an HVAC company said I'd need a 5 ton system. I'm already on the fence about whether I need A/C at all after the insulation, but if I do want to add it, it seems like 5 ton would too large. Does this seem like the correct size or would a smaller unit be more appropriate? Thanks.
 
One of our local supply houses will do a manual J study of a building free if you buy the equipment from them.

The way it works is they charge you about $400 for the manual J study and then when you buy the equipment they credit it back.

You might want to do something like that so it is sized properly.
 
Hello,
I recently completed a new barn that's 40'x60' with 12.5' walls and a concrete floor.

It also has an open area in the upper level for storage that's about 12'x60'.

I recently had the barn insulated with R19 in the walls
and Open cell foam in the ceiling.

Before insulation, it would get to about 109 degrees on the upper level.
Now on our hottest day of the summer
(93 deg with 107 deg heat index) with insulation,
it doesn't get hotter than 85 deg and the main level around 82.

[ Overnight Low must be < 71'F ]

I was really impressed by the difference!

In the winter, I'm planning to heat the building with my outdoor wood furnace
mainly to keep the building above freezing.

As far as A/C, my neighbor who works for an HVAC company said I'd need a 5 ton system.
I'm already on the fence about whether I need A/C at all after the insulation,
but if I do want to add it, it seems like 5 ton would too large.

Does this seem like the correct size or would a smaller unit be more appropriate?
Thanks.
Location: _ _ _ _ _ ZIP

Is the lowest temperature ~ 25'F _ 35'F Winter?

Use a #-Ton Heat Pump.
_____________ $0._ _ _ ? / kw-Hr in your locale.

How many 16' x ~ 20' doors? __
__ Mfg.: _____ model ________ Infiltration rating _ ?

Glass area: _ _ _ sq feet ?

I have performed Manual J calculations on two similar sized barns in the last month.
 
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Structures like this may benefit from whole space dehumidifier with the fresh air option because humidity control when unoccupied and being able to provide air change in 3-4 hours when occupied. Units like the Santa Fe and Broan are designed to deal air change and humidity control in space. Humidity control is important to avoid corrosion of materials in these type of spaces.

Give us more info on the uses of the space.

Regards Teddy Bear
 
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I have a 55x30 barn, 12’ side wall, 15’ at the peak r21 walls 44 ceiling with 2” foam under the slab floor. It has a 10x12 garage door, a 32” walkthrough, a 6’ double door and 4 32x36 windows.

My load calc that I did said 18k cooling, 38k heat.
 
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Discussion starter · #6 ·
My location is southern Indiana, so we get a pretty wide range of temperatures. It can get into the negatives in winter, but I'd say the average would be highs in the 30's and lows in the teens. My outdoor wood furnace heats the house no problem and I'm planning to also heat the barn with it. The barn has two 12'x9' doors that are insulated (R10) which I keep closed as much as possible, a standard walk through door, and there are 10 3'x'3 double pane windows spread out along the structure. I'm mostly using the space for storage and the occasional project like working on one of my vehicles.

I'm debating whether to get a cabinet with a coil or not and what size (21" or 24"). I found a new 5 ton blower cabinet without a coil or heat for $550 locally. A 5 ton cabinet with coil no heat is about $1,300. I still need to figure out if 5 ton is too large though. Thanks for the replies so far.
 
Figure 3

My location is southern Indiana, so we get a pretty wide range of temperatures. It can get into the negatives in winter, but I'd say the average would be highs in the 30's and lows in the teens.

My outdoor wood furnace heats the house no problem and I'm planning to also heat the barn with it.

The barn has two 12'x9' doors that are insulated (R10) which I keep closed as much as possible,
a standard walk through door,
and there are 10 3'x'3 double pane windows spread out along the structure.

I'm mostly using the space for storage and
the occasional project like working on one of my vehicles.


I'm debating whether to get a cabinet with a coil or not and what size (21" or 24").
I found a new 5 ton blower cabinet without a coil or heat for $550 locally.
A 5 ton cabinet with coil no heat is about $1,300.

I still need to figure out if 5 ton is too large though.

Thanks for the replies so far.
DESIGN TEMPS. _ 9'F & 89'F

WINTER: ROOM TEMP. 62'F at 12'F Outside, 50'F DT
_____ SUMMER: ___ 75'F _ 89'F __ DT 14'F

INFILTRATION = ??
.. / Rating = 0.3 cfm / Sq Ft @ 25 MPH or other ?
 

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Discussion starter · #9 ·
I'm not sure how to answer the infiltration question on the doors. I have two 12'x9' garage doors insulated at R10 and are manufactured by ProDoor (model 6413). So would a 4 ton system with a 21" cabinet be about the best size?
 
I'm not sure how to answer the infiltration question on the doors. I have two 12'x9' garage doors insulated at R10 and are manufactured by ProDoor (model 6413). So would a 4 ton system with a 21" cabinet be about the best size?
If you want to know the best size have someone perform Manual J and S calculations. Anything else is a guess.
 
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How do you want to condition the space?
A friend owns storage units across the country - iirc he heats them to 55-60f and cools them to 80-85. Takes about 1/4 the size most HVAC guys recommend - and runs near continuous so besides filter changes he has very little cycling/maintenance.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
I did the best calculation that I could on the CoolCalc website and came up with 44,724 heating BTUH, 33,865 cooling BTUH, and 1,509 CFM. According to this, I suppose I should be getting a 3 ton AC unit. Does this seem about right and is this website generally pretty accurate?
 
I did the best calculation that
I could on the CoolCalc website
and came up with 44,724 heating BTUH, 33,865 cooling BTUH, and 1,509 CFM.

According to this, I suppose I should be getting a 3 ton AC unit.

Does this seem about right and is this website generally pretty accurate?
ACCURACY IS TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON THE OPERAOTR.

If you did not get tripped up by a few of the software Defaults, then
accuracy {tolerance} ought to be < 25%.
 
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Discussion starter · #15 ·
Wow, so it’s not very accurate at all. I did call one local hvac company that had the best and most reviews around, but they told me they don’t install ductwork! This is a brand new install so I need that. I’ll keep calling around or maybe someone here can help me do the calculation since I’d like to buy my own equipment and I need to figure out what size to get. I may try to install the ductwork myself too.
 
You cannot find anyone to install ductwork and you think they will install equipment that you supply?
 
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Wow, so it’s not very accurate at all. I did call one local hvac company that had the best and most reviews around, but they told me they don’t install ductwork! This is a brand new install so I need that. I’ll keep calling around or maybe someone here can help me do the calculation since I’d like to buy my own equipment and I need to figure out what size to get. I may try to install the ductwork myself too.
One important factor in NOT knowing whether the results are acceptable is
that one may chose ~ 52'F to ~ 79'F as the Room temperature.
 
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Discussion starter · #20 ·
You cannot find anyone to install ductwork and you think they will install equipment that you supply?
Yeah, my dad bought some equipment online for a rental house and had a local company install it.


One important factor in NOT knowing whether the results are acceptable is
that one may chose ~ 52'F to ~ 79'F as the Room temperature.
99% of the time in winter I just want to keep the barn above freezing, so I put in 50 deg for winter indoor temp. I plan to heat it with my outdoor wood stove, so it should be able to handle a much higher temperature if I wanted it to. For most of the time in the summer I'm good with 78-80 deg and if I'm working in there I might want it down to 75. The cooling BTUH calculation didn't change much when I dropped it to 75.
 
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