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Lennox SEER rating Confusion!

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SCguy

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello All. Asking for my brother-in-law! (you guys helped me a few years ago)

We both live in Myrtle Beach SC and his 20-year-old Heat Pump failed this week during the heat wave.

Looking for a replacement and the company he uses suggested a Lennox ML17XP1 with a Lennox CBA25UH air handler.

At first they told him its 16 Seer, then said its 15 Seer, and today said it's 14 Seer. I looked online and saw it described as anywhere from a 14 to 17 Seer unit.

He is confused by this, and the salesman could not give him a clear explanation, but today told him that since it's only 14 Seer there are no Government or Utility rebates for SC.

Questions....What Seer is it? Why different Seer numbers? For a Hot and Humid climate with mild winters, would you suggest this unit? Are there rebates out there?

Thanks!
Steve
 
#2 · (Edited)
To know your SEER/SEER and EER/EER2 and HSPF/HSPF2 would need the complete model number of outdoor and indoor unit. Can take it from there, what is your state’s minimum threshold for rebates?

If they are not bidding AHRI matched systems, then your only guessing at ratings as you don’t go by the up to rating of outdoor unit alone, it’s a combo of matching indoor to outdoor section that gives you those ratings.

Starting 1/23 they went with SEER2, EER2 and for Heat Pumps HSPF2 to get a more accurate real world rating on new installs. SEER, EER and HSPF is still around thou. Need to check your state requirements if they use SEER or SEER2 and for a Heat Pump maybe the HSPF or HSPF2.

Shows 36 matches, can narrow it down with complete accurate model numbers, or you can check yourself here.

https://www.ahridirectory.org/Searc...uickSearch?category=8&searchTypeId=3&producttype=69&SubmenuId=3523&ProgramId=69

No need to enter brand, start with a partial model number of both parts, as sometimes the site will kick it out if you try to enter complete model numbers.

You going to trust a company to install your system that doesn’t even know how to manuever the AHRI web-site?

Ask this crack HVAC company to provide you with the rebates requirements, least they could do to earn your business, and/or check your local utility web-site yourself.

Try this site also, not sure how current it is thou..

https://www.dsireusa.org/

Not getting more quotes with different brands?

What is the labor warranty this company giving you, the standard one year or a longer warranty?
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
I see....looks like he has no idea what he is getting since they did not give him the complete model number. I'll tell him to find out. Then re-look at that AHRI site. Looking now there are several possibilities with just the ML17XP1 & CBA25UH numbers! Thanks.
 
#5 ·
SCguy said:
I see....looks like he has no idea what he is getting since they did not give him the complete model number. I'll tell him to find out. Then re-look at that AHRI site. Looking now there are several possibilities with just the ML17XP1 & CBA25UH numbers! Thanks.
Click to expand...
I see 36 if homework was done correctly and you can see all the SEER/EER and HSPF and BTU ratings at 47 degree and 17 degree. Again not real world but needed for state rebates and Tax Credits..and can tell if they are bidding matching AHRI systems.

Have them put the complete model numbers on the contract, as some HO have said Contractors switched a section without telling them, that either made their system less energy efficient or they installed a lower tier line section. Pretty sad a Contractor would do that but it happens. It’s one thing to say due to supply chain issue or whatever the reason is we can not get that coil, but we can get this coil, and things change slightly.
 
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#6 ·
SCguy said:
I see....looks like he has no idea what he is getting since they did not give him the complete model number. I'll tell him to find out. Then re-look at that AHRI site. Looking now there are several possibilities with just the ML17XP1 & CBA25UH numbers! Thanks.
Click to expand...
Let us know how he made out…
 
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Discussion starter · #7 ·
I will, Thanks. I did give all your information to my Brother-in-law, and he is grateful.

To answer some of your questions....
He was told by the HVAC company the unit he is getting will not qualify for any rebates because the Seer is too low.

This company only deals in Lennox and my brother-in-law did not want to call other companies for more quotes.

He has no idea what the labor warrantee is but I told him to make sure the new system is registered to boost the parts warrantee from 5 to 10 years! (as you guys always advise)

The system goes in Saturday. Hopefully he can get the full model #s ! Talk about flying blind!

One last question.....for the Southeast (Myrtle Beach) what is the minimal Seer2 HSPF2 would you suggest for a customer??
 
#8 ·
“for the Southeast (Myrtle Beach) what is the minimal Seer2 HSPF2 would you suggest for a customer??”

I suppose it needs to meet the minimum standards as of 1/23 for Heat Pumps such as this April 2023 Guidelines.

https://www.angi.com/articles/hvac-standards-whats-changed-your-region.htm

Depends on if you want state rebates and Tax Credits or just meet the guidelines, which efficiency level to go with.
 
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Discussion starter · #9 ·
Good link...thanks. I see minimals are 14.3 Seer2 and 7.5 HSPF2. But according to that article, there is also a loop hole!

Southern Regions: Non-compliant air conditioners cannot be sold or installed regardless of the manufacture date. However, you can buy or install non-compliant heat pumps if manufactured before January 1, 2023.

Now I'm really curious on what he gets! (will follow up after Saturdays install)
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Update:

The Lennox heat pump are going in and the full numbers are:

Outdoor : ML17XP1-030-230A
Indoor: CBA25UH-036-230

I put those numbers in
https://www.ahridirectory.org/Search...3&ProgramId=69

And they show as a match, but in the table it shows Seer2 is 15.4 but they have the yellow energy sticker showing Seer2 is 14.3.

So is his unit 15.4 or 14.3?

Does it mean that the ML17XP1-030-230A when used "alone" with a random air handler is 14.3 but if combined with a CBA25UH-036-230 air handler it's boosted to 15.4?

Thanks
 
#11 ·
Shows that is an active AHRI match 211056289 gives SEER2 of 15.4 EER2 of 12.2 and HSPF2 8.1 looks like that system would meet the Tax Credits and probably any rebates your state may have.

If homework was done correctly.
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
He checked and based in the AHRI numbers he does get a nice rebate from his SC Utility company, which is owned by the State.

Not clear why his HVAC sales guy told him he did not qualify. I guess he was looking at the 14.3 Seer2 rating on the outdoor unit and not the AHRI matched numbers which are higher??
 
#14 ·
SCguy said:
He checked and based in the AHRI numbers he does get a nice rebate from his SC Utility company, which is owned by the State.

Not clear why his HVAC sales guy told him he did not qualify. I guess he was looking at the 14.3 Seer2 rating on the outdoor unit and not the AHRI matched numbers which are higher??
Click to expand...
Maybe someone should mention this to the salesperson or company so future HO know what their ratings are ( if companies bid AHRI matched systems ) and if they qualify for any rebates SC may offer.
 
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#15 ·
SCguy said:
He checked and based in the AHRI numbers he does get a nice rebate from his SC Utility company, which is owned by the State.

Not clear why his HVAC sales guy told him he did not qualify. I guess he was looking at the 14.3 Seer2 rating on the outdoor unit and not the AHRI matched numbers which are higher??
Click to expand...
It’s so difficult to keep up with all the ever changing rebates/incentives along with all the other things an hvac contractor/company has to keep up with that a lot don’t want to promise a homeowner of “x” rebate and then some digit in the equipment we installed isn’t entered into some utility or government form and the rebate is denied.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
I can understand that, but they should be able to generate an AHRI certificate (like I did for my brother-in-law) and then tell the customer to use the information on the certificate to check on possible rebates. That way the HVAC company is not promising a rebate and just giving them the Certificate.
 
#17 ·
SCguy said:
I can understand that, but they should be able to generate an AHRI certificate (like I did for my brother-in-law) and then tell the customer to use the information on the certificate to check on possible rebates. That way the HVAC company is not promising a rebate and just giving them the Certificate.
Click to expand...
We do keep up with it for our customers and provide an AHRI certificate whether or not it qualifies for rebates/incentives but a lot of companies don’t.
 
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