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Discussion starter · #21 ·
You do know as Siemens employees we all have access to all the documentation for anything we've ever made, right? Dear Lord are they even training you?

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I am aware. Honestly, I can find everything I ever wanted to know about BACnet. Can’t find any documentation on P1/P2 protocol outside of start up manuals for field panels.

But by your answer I’m assuming you do have these documents? Care to share? Lol
 
I'm actually surprised Siemens allows access to P1/P2 documentation to field techs. That's probably one of the last things they'd want to get leaked or misplaced, although, both those protocols have been successfully reverse-engineered for the most part.
 
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I worked hard at JCI when I first started to get good. The 'rewarded me' with a 4% raise. As soon as I was good I got 50% more from a competitor. Either way, skill pays.
Go get em.
I was told I couldn’t get a 4% raise as my boss wouldn’t be able to give someone else a 3% raise then.

Uhhhh. Goodbye.


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I was told I couldn’t get a 4% raise as my boss wouldn’t be able to give someone else a 3% raise then.

Uhhhh. Goodbye.


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Bahaha! The gaslighting.
Jci says 'Mean mean Bigguy, depriving a coworker of a raise that keeps up with inflation. If you weren't so greedy, someone else could make a living Bigguy...' So silly.
Oh wait, bigguy doesn't set budgets, margins, or pay rates, or set the rules for this interaction. No, the same flunky telling me it is all my fault actually setes all these rules.... hmmmm....
Classic JCI.
 
Hey everyone, newer Siemens Tech here and want to practice/get exposed to BACnet Integration. I have some training documents that I can (hopefully) use as a guide, and a BACnet Modular at home that I use as a test panel. I was hoping to purchase a 3rd party device that I can practice Integrating with, just looking to successfully establish communication with MSTP device and maybe take some practice MSTP captures using Wireshark/RS485 converter.

Does anyone know of any cheap BACnet devices I could purchase to do this? I bought a used JCI BACnet Thermostat off Ebay but it doesn't look like I'm able to change (or view) the instance number so I don't believe I'll be able to successfully integrate this device.

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated. Just looking to get some hands on practice outside of the field if I can.
That's awesome. I did the exact same thing! I grabbed whatever half-broken parts I could and took them home to build a test bench. It really helped me learn a lot! I highly recommend it if you want to become more familiar with all the concepts. Feel free to reach out if you need any help.

There's a 4 day class in Buffalo Grove that they will pay you to go to for this.
And it's worthless.
 
the only raises I've ever gotten is by changing teams. I've seen dozens of people do this and get let down.
Probably because you're an unhelpful, condescending jack*** that nobody wants to work with :oops: I mean, yeah...I totally know what you mean.

I appreciate the perspective. I’ve been with Siemens a short time and can say that your experience definitely hasn’t been mine so far.

I wouldn’t say my initiative to look into these things on my own is saving anyone money as I will still have formal training, and if my skills lead to “more work” I welcome it. I want to look into these things to increase my skill and exposure to things I will be trained on and run into in the field and honestly I find all of this very interesting.
I applaud you for this, and I can tell you from personal experience that this will benefit you in countless ways.
Completely disregard MPeterson, on this and pretty much anything else he ever says. He's never once offered anything helpful in my 2+ years on this forum.

I guess now isn’t the time to bring up my ModBus arduinos? :D

I do appreciate your perspective and I’m sure you’re right. I am definitely someone who has benefitted from the labor shortage, as I had no experience before the field, and just feel like there’s so much information to know that I have to catch up.
Definitely love the Modbus Arduinos. I just did a Modbus-to-HDMI custom graphics project with Raspberry Pi's. It was a lot of fun and was able to provide a solution to a salesman-overpromised situation.
 
The way Siemens does Modbus is convoluted trash and requires a special license as well as the knowledge of Modbus registers and how to build custom ISB files. I've gotten pretty good at it over the years but there's no reason to not use BACnet first. Integration is also not a huge selling point for Siemens in my opinion. Siemens thrives on proprietary and full equipment control. Customers are usually wowed in the beginning with low integration prices and disappointed in the end with lack of direct control that is the alternative. Not to mention the inflated cost when you have to have the 3rd party come out and pretend to work on their controls.
You clearly have no grasp of Modbus or BACnet fundamentals.

MODBUS isn't going anywhere in the foreseeable future. Absolutely tons of stuff still use it, especially energy meters and industrial electrical equipment because it is essentially free for the device manufacturers to add. Contrast this with the cost (upfront and royalties) to buy a good quality BACNet stack for your software development, and then paying BTL to certify it and it's easy to see why so many devices still use it. Yes it sucks if you don't have a register map 10 years down the road, and most companies leave out relevant data like is that register 2 bytes or 4 bytes wide and you have to make educated guesses and experiment to get it right, on the other hand, once working they do tend to stay working.
Pretty dead on with Modbus being the most popular comm protocol in the world, spanning over multiple different industries, and will be in use for decades to come.

The story with the TEC retirement is that the only chip manufacturer left in the world with the capability of making the TEC chip told Siemens they were done making it. Apparently it was a very old chip that only a few companies still were buying. The DXR runs on the same chipset as the PXC line of field panels so that was the cheapest option for them. But because it's a different chipset, that means new firmware would need developed for it. So that's where ABT Site came from.
There's so much misinformation here, I don't know where to start.
Pretty much every computer chip ever made, dating back to the early 1970s is readily available from one source or another. In many [industrial] applications, extremely old processors are used when simplicity, proven reliability, and dirt cheap cost are key priorities.
Retiring an entire line of controllers, that have been in production for 30+ years, because a vendor is discontinuing a specific variety of processor is utter BS and reveals your ignorance.

The DXRs and PXCs have absolutely nothing in common. Hardware or otherwise. Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about and have clearly never read a tech spec sheet.
PXCs use a Motorola PowerPC chip, originating in the early 1990s. The PXC16/24 have a 100MHz with 16MB if RAM. PXC36/M have a 133MHz variant with up to 80MB RAM.
The DXR runs a Linux-based OS, has a modern 300MHz processor made by Texas Instruments, and has 512MB of flash storage, with 128MB of DDR3 RAM.
They literally have absolutely NOTHING in common except "Siemens" on the cover.
Please don't talk on things you know nothing about and spread misinformation.
 
Weird. You seem perfectly okay with him discouraging young talent into the industry, among his other toxic traits.
I said be nice. That is not too hard is it?

I voiced a differing viewpoint than Mr Peterson. But I never resorted to name calling or personal attacks.

Be good or be gone.
 
This is not the forum a Siemens employee should come to, to ask for help and 99% of the help you can get none of the rest of you can even access anyways. I forwarded him some stuff in the right manner just being this condescending guy I am.
Well, it seems in line with my experience, got lots of replys on my issues but nothing that actually helped me, I guess because I'm not a Siemens employee? :confused: Live and learn, from now on if a contractor ever proposes installing a Siemens system in either of my hospitals I will do everything in my power to discourage them.
 
Mr VA, coldstarting a Siemens panel makes him lose his database. So, not as simple as pulling power. He will need to be re-downloaded.
Just to be clear.
 
I'm not shocked by anything. I understand you need to make money, but what I don't understand is reaching out to a company for what should be 10 minutes of a chat with a qualified tech and getting absolutely nothing from the branch office for several weeks, when they finally do get back to us, they send a form to fill in for $216/hr. All we asked them for was passwords to the system they installed. Keep in mind we are not a "normal" customer, I work for the federal government. The terms of the original contract clearly state they must provide all passwords and the means for the government to change existing programming. The government has laws against getting locked into systems to avoid just such a thing. Most of the times we wouldn't be using the passwords ourselves, or changing the programming ourselves because most facilities don't have someone like me on staff. What would happen is if the system goes down or needs modification, the government would turn that info over to whoever gets awarded the contract to fix the issue or modify the system. Going to contracting and specifying a certain vendor almost never flies, You have to do a mound of paperwork to sole source a vendor for a contract because you need a waiver to bypass the laws in place that are meant to prevent getting locked into one vendor. Any savvy business knows this and would have included extra money into their original bid because of the extra requirements in government contracts. Siemens apparently is not savvy, they do not realize that once every half decade providing 10-30 minutes of telephone conversation might keep the door open for them on the next contract that comes along and go a long way to building good will with a potential customer. Taking the attitude that they won't speak with you period unless they have cash in hand only works if you have more business than you can handle and don't mind burning bridges with customers.

As for you not providing helpful responses on here because the implication is you may get in trouble with your bosses for taking money away from the company because of lost service calls, than why in the hell would be on here at all??? I ask questions about lots of other systems that according to you are "proprietary" and get tons of good technical advice. Not providing any technical documents online is just stupid, just like another german company I know, VW. Had VW diesels for over a decade, and there support used to be great, than one day they decided to pull all the TSB's and other tech documents from the internet. Guess what, after my 2 year old car exploded it's turbo and they fought me every inch of the way on replacing it, and then a few months later the water pump went bad, than shortly after that the sensor for NOx emmisions went bad and they wouldn't fix either one I was done. BTW - my friend has a car dealership and pays for a service to get all TSB, all these issues had TSB's would have helped with my fight for warranty work but I didn't know that at the time and couldn't access it for free. Guess who never is going to own a VW again??? I stand by my assessment, I will do everything in my power to never allow another siemens system to be installed in either hospital. I mean why would want to work for a company that would threaten to sue you after leaving employment over something like continuing to work in you chosen profession?


Why are you shocked, it's a proprietary system? Same with JCI. Trane, etc. There's only so much they will give you without you getting certification or paying them. Niagara also has a paid certification course. None of these platforms are really "open" and some of these vendors pretend like they are. I take hundreds of calls for other systems and they aren't any more open or closed than Siemens. Call the hardware manufacturer tech support and most won't talk to you unless you have a contract or are paying them. This is all a business, and if you're not making good money they don't want the business.

I would almost bet if you coldstart that panel you can't discover that it would work. It's probably older firmware that is known to lock up the MSTP trunk. There's 4 or 5 articles about it I can't share here. For the amount of time you've put into this you could have had a tech for a half day and this would be over. This particular situation isn't one I could even remotely talk you through because you don't have DMA or Comm tool to reload the panel if something happens. You could backup the panel database to flash and do it that way.

But being short about not being able to Google your way through something doesn't make Siemens a bad company or me not helpful. I have mouths to feed and I'm not bending rules so your hospital can save $1000. Just because some of the scorned Siemens techs want to risk parting with some of these documents doesn't make them heros either. If legal wanted to, they absolutely could send them cease and desists and sue them. I have some friends who have left and have been down that road.



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