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Were to go from here... Goodman GMES960803BN manual lockouts

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ronsfsd

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Homeowner here, but I am at the end of my patience. I'm really hoping that someone can point me in the right direction.

- April 2020 - Brand new, replacement GMES960803BN install by local (large, reputable) HVAC company.

Everything ran as expected. No complaints at all.

- January 2022 - Received recall notice from Goodman. So, contacted the same HVAC company and scheduled the fix (“Blower Guard Kit BGK-01S” (GP/NPCBBF150)).

The very next morning after a very cold night (single digits F), the system went into manual lockout.

- Called company and had them send out the same guy that did the fix.

He spent hours and found nothing wrong. A power cycle later, things are up and running again.

Since that day, the system (seemingly randomly - usually on a cold morning after having the thermostat turned down overnight) goes into manual lockout.
A power cycle almost always remedies the immediate problem.

NOTE: Power cycling the unit is the only way to get the unit running again because even though the main PCB is a temporary lockout, the "Blower Guard" PCB is a manual lockout.

- February 2022 - For no less than 3 separate days I had a whole army of HVAC guys from the local company come out to troubleshoot. They dismantled/reassembled and/or "tested" nearly everything: Wiring, PVC (incoming and exhaust), pressure switches, limit switches. I am pretty sure that they tested the gas pressures because I seem them noted on the inside panel.

They found "nothing" that would cause the issue.


STARTUP SYMPTOMS
1. Inducer fan starts
2. Igniter heats up
3. Gas valve opens and burners light
4. 30 seconds later the blower motor starts
a. Almost immediately the blower motor pressure valve opens (as it should) – as measured by 24v across pins 1 and 3 on 5 pin connector.
5. A few seconds later, there is a momentary “puff” (flashback?)
a. It is here that the burners SOMETIMES go out
b. If the burners don’t go out, the system operates normally
c. If the burners do go out, the system retries lighting the burners
i. Usually, the relight is successful
d. If the relight is not successful two more times, the "Blower Guard PCB" goes into manual lockout
Note: Upon power reset, the system almost always works.


I'm a little desperate here because the HVAC company doesn't want to mess with this any more, but I need a reliable furnace.

I would REALLY!!! appreciate any direction you can provide.
 
#2 ·
Has the dealer contacted Goodman directly for tech support. If not that would be the first place to start. If they do not want to go that way then call Goodman directly and tell them your issue. If there is no help there then you are looking for better techs or a better furnace.
 
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#3 ·
Says this about the GMES96


“Self diagnostic control board with constant memory fault code history output to a LED”

Didn’t look like you mentioned the fault codes?

Did they check the basic things when they did the start up/commissioning report, things like static pressures, temperature rise across HX, CFM, gas pressures check etc.

Did they do one of these things on startup?

https://www.energystar.gov/sites/default/files/National HVAC Commissioning Checklist _Rev 11.pdf

Download the install guide of the furnace, there are tons of information/checks/set up to get that furnace up and running correctly, along with having properly sized ductwork.

Hopefully you registered each section ( along with if you have a new A/C or Heat Pump ) as manufacturers warranty decreases if system never gets registered.
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
The fault code is always the same: One slow blink on the main PCB - excessive retries.

I believe that they tested the gas pressure, static pressure, and temp rise because I see these values written on the inside of the panel. The PVC runs were taken apart and reassembled by them. I recently rechecked per the install instructions and they look to be appropriate. Thanks for the ideas - I'll look over the startup checklist again, but I have done that a few times already.

What else would you try?

What happens at step 5 above? Always at the same time interval, it seems like the controller switches from a startup to a run type mode, but what's the difference?
 
#5 ·
Your photo indicate the cased coil and furnace have the same width ( you can confirm ) but the model numbers of the furnace you supplied says the furnace is 17.5” wide with a 14” wide cased ( boxed ) coil. Not that,..that matters, if the furnace outlet is not restricted.

Where did you get those model numbers from? Actually reading them on the coil and furnace or paperwork?

Also shows the furnace is a NOX, which is used in California, not sure what other states use NOX furnaces, or if there is a different gas pressure or gas set up that’s different from standard furnaces.

96% furnace, thinking you do not reside in California?

Anyway download the furnace install guide, as chances somewhere in the guide has a troubleshooting guide and probably list what your codes are.

As mentioned have your Contractor of choice call Technical Representative as they do not talk to HO.

If you never had any problems with your system before the recall, what changed after the modifications. How was the system running before modifications?
 
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#6 ·
I looked up this kit and as some stated, it sure seems like a joke!!!

If I am on this call, I would remove the kit and see if the problem goes away, if no other troubleshooting procedures worked.
 
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#7 ·
"The Blower Guard Kit is not an auto-reset device. If the Blower Guard trips for any reason it must
be manually reset and the reason for the trip must be identified. Failure to sense blower operation
will likely be due to a sticking or failed pressure switch, board failure, wiring issue or motor failure.

Before a heating call, the Blower Guard PCB will be in an idle state with the green LED being
constant. When a call for heat is received at the furnace and the gas valve is energized, the
Blower Guard PCB enters “Start Up”, and the green LED will begin to flash at a 1 second interval.
The Blower Guard PCB must sense a closed pressure switch and motor current within 50 seconds
after the gas valve is energized. If both are detected, then the Blower Guard PCB will enter the
“Monitor Circulator Blower Running” state and the green LED will flash faster. If the motor current,
closed pressure switch, or both are not sensed at 50 seconds after the gas valve is energized,
the Blower Guard PCB will enter the permanent “Lockout” state, which is represented by a solid
red LED and requires a service call.

During the start-up sequence of the furnace, if the gas valve signal is interrupted within 50
seconds, the Blower Guard PCB will enter the “Extended Relay On” state, represented by a solid
orange/amber LED. In some conditions, the gas valve interruption could cause the Blower Guard
PCB to enter a 10-minute lockout represented by a slow flashing orange/amber LED. Please note
that during the 10-minute lockout of the Blower Guard PCB, the furnace control board may lockout the furnace for up to 1-hour. If Extended Relay State occurs repeatedly, the Blower Guard PCB
may enter permanent lockout represented by a solid red LED.

During the start-up sequence of the furnace, if the Blower Guard pressure switch is closed but
motor current is not sensed, the Blower Guard PCB will enter the “Lockout Pressure Switch” state,
indicated by a fast-flashing red LED. In this state, the Blower Guard PCB will remain locked out
until service of the pressure switch.

This information was found online with a search. Admin can take it down if necessary.

OP, do you run your blower all the time, ON and not AUTO on the thermostat?
 
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Discussion starter · #9 ·
"The Blower Guard Kit is not an auto-reset device. If the Blower Guard trips for any reason it must be manually reset and the reason for the trip must be identified. Failure to sense blower operation will likely be due to a sticking or failed pressure switch, board failure, wiring issue or motor failure."

- The pressure switch activates almost immediately (as indicated by voltage across pins) upon fan start up. So, I'd guess that's not the issue.
- The PCB: [who knows]
- Wiring issue: I thought that the HVAC company checked all of that
- Motor failure: it seems to run fine when the board isn't locked out

The Blower Guard LED sequence:
- Prior to heat, it glows constant Green
- At heat call, it changes to Slow, Green blink
- Within a short time, the LED blinks a little faster (ie. Pressure and current both sensed)
- - - If the burners remain lit, the board continues to blink faster Green until the thermostat ends its call for heat

But, right about the time that the main blower turns on is when the burners sometimes go out (usually with a "puff").
- If the burners go out, the system retries
- - - (I don't recall an Orange color LED during the retries. It's possible that I am just missing that.)
- If the burners don't light after 2 retries, the Blower Guard PCB changes its LED to Red and locks out until a power cycle.

The sequence is always the same. The only variables are whether the burners STAY lit on the first try and whether they light on a retry.

Just to reiterate, the problem usually (but not always) happens in the early morning after a cold night with a lower thermostat setting. And the system almost always works after a power cycle. Soooo - no problem after it has attempted to light and has warmed up a little bit.

To answer your last question: No I don't run the fan constantly. I may try that to see if anything changes.

Thanks!

BTW - to answer Bazooka Joe's (probably mis-directed) reply, I'm in South Dakota.
 
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