Waiting for 2025 refrigerant heat pumps to become available?

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Dave_PA

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Discussion starter · #1 · Jun 21, 2022

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Due to the very high cost of fuel oil I would like to upgrade my 27 year old central air unit to a heat pump and use the oil boiler as back-up (I have a hydro-air heat exchanger), but would also like to upgrade to a 2025 refrigerant such as R-454B, but it appears that there are no 2025 refrigerant heat pumps yet available?

Carrier had previously announced that it would introduce models that use 2025 refrigerants in 2023, but the latest Carrier announcement (March 2022) announced the efficiency changes for 2023 and also stated in the FAQ:
"FAQ - Will the 2023-compliant products be converted over to the new refrigerant in 2025?"
"No, the new 2023-compliant products will not be compatible with the new 2025 refrigerants. All split system air conditioners and heat pumps will need to be redesigned and relaunched to be compatible with the 2025 refrigerant, Puron Advance. Additionally, we will release new Puron Advance compatible furnace coil and fan coil models for 2025."

Anybody know if any manufacturer will be introducing 2025 refrigerants in 2023? If so I may choose to wait another year. The cost of R-22 is extremely high, and that was with a transition period of about 10 years. The cost of R-410 is already extremely high, and it still seems to be the only game in town. My neighbor just replaced a 12 year old R-22 heat pump because of a leak difficult to repair and the high cost of R-22. I really would like to avoid that scenario with a R-410 heat pump 10-15 years from now if possible. Not having a significant overlap between R-410 and the 2025 refrigerants seems to create a large potential for future misery.

Thank you

 

R600a

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#2 · Jun 21, 2022

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Personally I'd recommend sticking with the devil we know instead of the devil we don't know and get a 410a system. There's no telling what kind of problems they're going to cause with all the junk they have to put on it because of the flammability of the new refrigerants. The cutting edge is sharp and can cause you to bleed so it's better to stay away from cutting edge and stick with tried and true.
The government is going to absolutely ensure that no matter what you do you will get stuck with a system that uses an outmoded refrigerant unless you replace that system every 5 years.

 

pacnw

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#3 · Jun 21, 2022

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Why wait?
Are you planning on never moving again?
I would NOT expect a new system to last the same length of time as your old unit, either.

Just like R22, 410A will be around for sometime after the "ban".

 

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ss120396

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#4 · Jun 21, 2022

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First off, have you even checked to see if the new refrigerants are allowed in your state yet? They're still banned in 46 out of 50 states last I checked. And even in the few states where they're allowed, virtually no technicians have the new refrigerants on their trucks or have gotten any real training on the installation or service of these systems yet.

As of now the only next-gen refrigerant unit available is a R-32 mini split by Daikin. I would assume you will start to see more units on the market mid-late 2024 as the expected deadline approaches, the next step of the HFC production phasedown happens, more states have updated their building codes, and more techs have been trained.

 

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Dave_PA

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Discussion starter · #5 · Jun 21, 2022

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Thanks guys for your thoughts and information. Part of what makes it a hard decision is that it's $10,000+ for equipment that may last only 10-15 years, which may be almost $1,000 a year just for the equipment. At $5 per gallon that's 200 gallons of oil, and I estimate that I use less than 300 gallons of oil a year currently for heating, and the remainder for domestic hot water.

 

pecmsg

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#6 · Jun 21, 2022

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Dave_PA said:

Thanks guys for your thoughts and information. Part of what makes it a hard decision is that it's $**,***+ for equipment that may last only 10-15 years, which may be almost $*,*** a year just for the equipment. At $* per gallon that's 200 gallons of oil, and I estimate that I use less than 300 gallons of oil a year currently for heating, and the remainder for domestic hot water.

Click to expand...

and thank your Uncle Sam for that!