So I have a trane split system with r22 and oil00027. My distributor says that's a mineral oil. I've been told I have to change out the txv and all the Schrader valves in the system and add poe oil to retrofit it to 430 (mo99) can anybody verify that or give me advice on how to properly do the change over?
Retrofitting r22 to 438
Rgabel
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So I have a trane split system with r22 and oil00027. My distributor says that's a mineral oil. I've been told I have to change out the txv and all the Schrader valves in the system and add poe oil to retrofit it to 430 (mo99) can anybody verify that or give me advice on how to properly do the change over?
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R-22 systems are getting old, they may have a few more yeas left in them but can't be a lot. You are putting a lot of expense and labor into doing a job right just to get a few more years out of it. I think it would make more sense to fix the leak, then recharge with R-22.
Here is the thing I don't get about drop ins. There are a bunch of them, 6 or more. A drum of 22 is expensive. A drum of each of the drop ins is even more expensive, and if only a few LBs are used out of that drum then the price of that drum goes from expensive to astronomical. Or to change from the drop in that is in the system to the drop in you carry is even more crazy. Having said that my favorite drop in is the R-22 the unit was designed for. It is the only true drop in for R-22 systems.
Here is the thing I don't get about drop ins. There are a bunch of them, 6 or more. A drum of 22 is expensive. A drum of each of the drop ins is even more expensive, and if only a few LBs are used out of that drum then the price of that drum goes from expensive to astronomical. Or to change from the drop in that is in the system to the drop in you carry is even more crazy. Having said that my favorite drop in is the R-22 the unit was designed for. It is the only true drop in for R-22 systems.
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R-22 is crazy expensive where I live.
We did our due diligence and settled on R-458A as our drop in of choice. Only one third the price of 22. And the systems only require 75-80% of the amount of 22. Cost had nothing to do with our choice, but it is very cost effective relative to 22.
We did our due diligence and settled on R-458A as our drop in of choice. Only one third the price of 22. And the systems only require 75-80% of the amount of 22. Cost had nothing to do with our choice, but it is very cost effective relative to 22.
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That's fine but what do you do when you run into a system that someone else dropped in Bluron. Do you go buy a drum of Bluron or do you convert it to 458A. Do you charge the customer for the full drum of do you take the hit if you never see another system with Bluron? That's my point. If you chare for the full drum and leave the drum that would cost more than the fill of 22. If you keep the drum and never use the balance of it that's a huge loss depending on how much is left in the drum.
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How would one know how many different #'s are in the mix?
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Good point - it maybe have been four or five drop-ins in them based on how screwy they were acting. <g>
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MO99 now recommends 30% POE in certain systems
https://www.hysave.com/wp-content/u...tent/uploads/2013/05/retrofit-guidelines-for-DuPont-ISCEON-MO99-refrigerant.pdf
https://www.hysave.com/wp-content/u...tent/uploads/2013/05/retrofit-guidelines-for-DuPont-ISCEON-MO99-refrigerant.pdf
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I guess you top them off to Beer Can Cold ...
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Yes as far as I know. All the failures I am familiar with of have been on chillers. Both Carlyle's and Copeland Discus
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why any repairs on a 22 system?
up here in canada we just sell them a 410a system
up here in canada we just sell them a 410a system
Not my call. I work on an installation and this is what the company decided to do for split systems or smaller systems to save the r22 for the big chillers. From what I've been told we will have several different drop ins because each company recommends a different one depending on the make, model, and application of the system.
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I have an issue on a Heat Pump with R-22. I am leaning towards R-407c. I like the lower operating pressures personally. Most recommend a ratio of at least 20% POE oil when compared to the old mineral oil. Some recommend using SUPCO 88 as an additive but only a few OZ correct? Do you also replace the filter-dryer? I have read that R-407c will add some system capacity over R-22, however, R-438c reduces capacity some. R-438c may or may not require a oil change so that is an advantage.
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820 Posts
422b isn't far off of 22 #s and needs no oil change it works for both. Around here lots of companies just top off or repair systems with it. Totally stupid but and technically illegal but it's done alot and I've heard little complaints.
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6,240 Posts
Short list: replace valve cores and filter drier. Shouldn't need any POE oil on a resi split.
Here's the retrofit guidelines:
https://hvac-talk.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=278651&d=1343181729
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