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AdrianOmarPerez

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Daikin DBS a.k.a. Daikin Building Solutions recently went Union in Arizona. The operation in the AZ/NM District has been small for some time. The El Paso Operation closed over 5 years ago, it was never an Offuce just a couple of truck-based guys. The Tucson Office hasn’t recovered from the 3 guys leaving in 3 or 4 years time. Now, the Phoenix Coordinator, Phoenix Supervisor, and District Manager are all gone. It’s been quite a shake-up.
Daikin DBS Phoenix is apparently an endbell-to-endbell Daikin-only Service Office.


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Discussion starter · #3 ·
Word is down here, stateside, that Daikin Applied Service, or whatever their operating name may be in CAN, is a Canadian National Signatory. Can this be confirmed?


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Discussion starter · #6 ·
UA516 site lists Daikin Applied Canada as a union contractor. View attachment 830298


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Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, GTA, Ottawa, Hamilton, Montreal, and Quebec City are Daikin DBS and Union.

Regina, Winnipeg, and the Maritimes are Daikin Service Authorized Providers.


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Discussion starter · #9 ·
Our peer group with the numbers presented by the AZ ROC estimates that 5% of HVAC Techs are Chiller/Boiler a.k.a. Applied HVAC Techs. That number falls at around 350 Techs, this does not factor in Refrigeration nor Industrial Refrigeration Techs - only HVAC. In the Union, the Pipe Trades Union specifically, there’s only about 30-35 Chiller Techs. This number includes the 5 or 6 recently Organized at the DBS Office. There is not 315-320 Non-Union Chiller Techs around either. So if you know something that I don’t - chime in.
Remember, these numbers are for CAS Chiller/HVAC Boiler Techs only. There’s guys making MESJ scale that don’t know how to or don’t work on Chillers, this number is not being factored - just repairmen or overhaul specialists.


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1) Ok, so the pickings are slim on your end but that can make for a great opportunity for a tech who is motivated to move into chillers (granted it will normally take about a 1.5 years for a commercial tech to fully adopt the mindset shift into chillers and away from DX), it is also an opportunity for a seasoned tech in another area to relocate. It is estimated that the price of housing alone will go up 40-50% in Tampa and Jacksonville while going up 25-30% in Raleigh. Sounds possibly like a technician's market.

2) Why wouldn't someone want to get away from DX and do chiller work? (unless they're doing controls)

3) You said they don't do much work from other manufacturers. This means they can focus on one manufacturer rather than getting swarmed with a ton of manufacturers and various product lines. Plus I would have to suspect a bulk of it is warranty work which means it's cleaner than working on some 15 year old air cooled screw that is loud and dirty with parts that are becoming obsolete.

I think it is something that could be appealing to a tech.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
My apologies, I am saying that the overall CAS Chiller workforce is rather small. Maybe less than 2.5% of all HVAC Techs in this state. Is this the case where you are at?


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I'm probably looking at it thru bias lenses. Generally when I worked with younger techs I was training them and encouraging them to work towards chillers or get into controls. I don't spend anytime with technicians that aren't growing in that direction or heading into controls. I tend to spend time among techs that are working in the niches I'm in rather than the ones I was in over a decade ago. It's not that I don't help a tech when he is in need, I remember the frustration the first time I worked on a Voyager after just becoming proficient with a small straight cool, but there's enough to keep track of in my niche to also add in the changing world of DX.

That being said, you're probably right about the lack of chiller techs and I don't realize it.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
I'm probably looking at it thru bias lenses. Generally when I worked with younger techs I was training them and encouraging them to work towards chillers or get into controls. I don't spend anytime with technicians that aren't growing in that direction or heading into controls. I tend to spend time among techs that are working in the niches I'm in rather than the ones I was in over a decade ago. It's not that I don't help a tech when he is in need, I remember the frustration the first time I worked on a Voyager after just becoming proficient with a small straight cool, but there's enough to keep track of in my niche to also add in the changing world of DX.

That being said, you're probably right about the lack of chiller techs and I don't realize it.
No prob. When you say Controls, do you mean BAS or Chiller Controls? I’ve been fortunate enough to work on Applied/Engineered HVAC, LC HVAC, Resi HVAC, HVAC Controls, ComRef, LC Refrig/CKE, and Refrig EMS. I did not get into Domestic Appliance/Refrig or Industrial Refrig. I do wish that I had gotten into doing some Industrial Refrig, but I’m glad I didn’t get into Domestic. I also disliked CKE and I thought I disliked ComRef, but it was the hours that I didn’t like. I really enjoy the true science that the refrigeration cycle is.

Another numbers reference, let’s say that in FL, there’s 10,000 HVAC Techs - is there 500 or more Chillers Techs in the state? Possibly, right? With Trane TBS and Daikin DBS in Miami and Daikin DBS in DisneyWorld being Signatory, the rest of Daikin DBS and Trane TBS and maybe Comfort Systems USA are doing large Chiller work as Non-Union. So are most Chiller shops or Depts Union in FL? FL has more HigherEd campuses, more resorts, more Hi/Mid-Rises, more metro areas - more CAS Chillers. I know that the 10,000 Tech number is probably higher than that and FL might have 10% or higher as Chiller Techs.


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BAS. I did chillers for a number of years but kind of lost the passion and enjoy the challenge of something constantly changing.

Not certain how much chiller work Comfort Systems does, I mean technically it's a lot but a number of them are small chillers for MRI machines with a like a 3 ton scroll compressor. MSI does some, AMSCO, there's actually quite a few companies that service them but generally it's the manufacturers. Only union shops I know of were Carrier, and JCI.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
BAS. I did chillers for a number of years but kind of lost the passion and enjoy the challenge of something constantly changing.

Not certain how much chiller work Comfort Systems does, I mean technically it's a lot but a number of them are small chillers for MRI machines with a like a 3 ton scroll compressor. MSI does some, AMSCO, there's actually quite a few companies that service them but generally it's the manufacturers. Only union shops I know of were Carrier, and JCI.
I wasn’t talking about MRI Chillers or Scroll Chiller, I was talking about CAS Chillers.
The Service Logic companies, the EMCOR companies, ABM HVAC Services, Siemens SBTS, SE Chiller, Thermetrics, Gulf, United Mech, Sunshine Chiller, Orlando Chiller, Thermaserve, Precision, SE Mech, Advanced, Krauss, Roth, etc.
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Odd in previous post I thought I had listed Hill York (an Emcor company) as one of the union shops but it's not on there.

Never heard a centrifugal called CAS, frequently referred to a CTV in Trane shops. Kinda funny to me to see Comfort Systems name on a larger chiller like that. I have seen some of ther smaller companies (like those you listed) service and repair the larger chillers (screws and centrifugals) but I've seen several times when these companies have lost a key person and were stuck with an incomplete job or someone to service the contract (primarily with centrifugals).

So it does seem that the numbers you gave earlier are consistently that way in several areas and regions. There is a significant shortage of trained technicians. Surprised there's not more companies outside of the manufacturers (aside from Entech) that are offering training courses to other companies.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Odd in previous post I thought I had listed Hill York (an Emcor company) as one of the union shops but it's not on there.

Never heard a centrifugal called CAS, frequently referred to a CTV in Trane shops. Kinda funny to me to see Comfort Systems name on a larger chiller like that. I have seen some of ther smaller companies (like those you listed) service and repair the larger chillers (screws and centrifugals) but I've seen several times when these companies have lost a key person and were stuck with an incomplete job or someone to service the contract (primarily with centrifugals).

So it does seem that the numbers you gave earlier are consistently that way in several areas and regions. There is a significant shortage of trained technicians. Surprised there's not more companies outside of the manufacturers (aside from Entech) that are offering training courses to other companies.
Centrifugal, Absorption, and Screw. McQuay used to use the acronym in its older Service Alliance Partners agreement. A similar acronym is used in the National Agreements, adding an A for Ammonia.
I believe what you said happening about when a guy leaves, it happened at one of the Siemens SBTS Offices in FL.


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