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Two months and 13 service visits on a brand new Lennox unit

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#101 ·
Get a straw , put in your mouth , and breathe out of it

Ok now you know how the system feels when its not getting the correct amount of air ...
 
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#102 ·
pacnw said:
"...The company has glowing reviews and has been around over 40 years, so this is not a bad company,..."

I worked for a company that has been around for over 100, in one form or another in hvac, and the customers love them. That does not mean they know what they are doing, just that the customer knows no better.

Until you, OP, came here you did not know and now you have learned.
Maybe the company will learn, too.
To have never done air flow checks/diagnosis/verification or duct work sizing is scary!!

Not only do these things allow the equipment to last a long time, it is the only way to get possibly get the energy ratings advertised.
Click to expand...
Imagine the entire company, plus a lennox rep that cant see the return duct that is clearly kinked right in front of them......Yet the sales rep seen it and pointed it out.....

First time in history the sales rep gets the win
 
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Discussion starter · #103 ·
Update: they have been on site for 4 hours. I still don’t have the numbers you requested, but they are working in heat and high humidity currently so I am not pestering while they still work. They are very apologetic and courteous today, and I can really tell at this point they are throwing everything at this. He said there was a lot of water that got into my heater unit from all of this, so yes it needs to be solved and not drug out.
1. They did air flow studies. Those were “normal”.
2. They said I don’t need an oil trap because my evaporator inside is higher than the thing outside, if it was reversed it would need one.
3. They are as frustrated as I am and want a Lennox person on site. They were denied. (Not assigning blame here I assume Lennox is as short staffed as many other places)
4. Lennox has determined via phone that it is the indoor evaporator coil (I may have this word wrong) it’s something inside the unit in the attic.
5. There is No “kink” in air flow, it has nice big bend. It may look that way to me but he said no. He doesn’t think metal elbow will do anything for air flow because it’s perfect.

That’s all I know as of 12 noon EST
 

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#104 ·
3” of that coil is not getting proper airflow the way it sits on the furnace. Surprised Lennox does not have a transition they recommend. I try and do a 6” piece on every unit that has space, even if the coil is the same size. A person on here got me started on that trend.


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Discussion starter · #106 ·
What layperson terms could I go say to the young men working on my system that might get them to look at or notice this?


jbhenergy said:
3” of that coil is not getting proper airflow the way it sits on the furnace. Surprised Lennox does not have a transition they recommend. I try and do a 6” piece on every unit that has space, even if the coil is the same size. A person on here got me started on that trend.


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#108 ·
They should install the metal elbows that you paid for. The flex in a radius absolutely affects airflow negatively.
 
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Discussion starter · #109 ·
They were instructed to change the evaporator. The original evaporator was the same size? This was a new one. It’s larger. They don’t any anymore stock of old one. They put metal transitions bars on. They are outside the suction valve is “wide open” and no refrigerant is flowing. There should be a “big cloud” outside with valve right open, no refrigerant is flowing through suction valve? They think THIS is the problem now, they are back on phone with Lennox. They said evaporator didn’t need changed it was a suction valve problem?
 

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Discussion starter · #112 ·
Layman description: This issue they have narrowed it to, the suction valve wide open and no refrigerant flowing is not something they have seen before, nor have their “Senior staff”. Whatever they are describing is not a problem they see? Which is why Lennox is back into the fold. They started it up with new evaporator. It was still warm air and whatever they measure was wrong. Then they found this wide open suction valve with no refrigerant flow issue. They are absolutely certain this is it.
 
#113 ·
I’m interested to hear the outcome of this. This doesn’t make sense that they couldn’t spot that within minutes of gauging up to the unit….

Is there a member on here close we can get to this unit lol


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Discussion starter · #114 ·
They did figure this out right after installing the new larger size evaporator today.
Outside of that I cannot explain why that issue wasn’t spotted between April and today.

To the person that said to insist on metal elbows I paid for. I did. It won’t happen today but they will install them at a later date. Getting it working is priority. By working I mean always working, not intermittently. It’s always intermittently worked some days better than others…the outdoor noise I complained of was associated with it not working (when it was frozen = loud)

jbhenergy said:
I’m interested to hear the outcome of this. This doesn’t make sense that they couldn’t spot that within minutes of gauging up to the unit….

Is there a member on here close we can get to this unit lol


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#115 ·
scubagirl007 said:
They did figure this out right after installing the new larger size evaporator today.
Outside of that I cannot explain why that issue wasn’t spotted between April and today.

To the person that said to insist on metal elbows I paid for. I did. It won’t happen today but they will install them at a later date. Getting it working is priority. By working I mean always working, not intermittently. It’s always intermittently worked some days better than others…the outdoor noise I complained of was associated with it not working (when it was frozen = loud)
Click to expand...
DO you remember early on in this thread I said the refrigerant numbers would tell us a lot? Well the refrigerant numbers is how you would know the "valve" is wide open. The "Valve" is a metering device that allows refrigerant into the evaporator and its called a TXV(thermal expansion valve)....This may or may not be the issue! We would need to know what the subcooling number is.

There is no such thing as Airflow is normal.....Ask for the static pressure numbers, CFM numbers from the traverse or flow hood they used, or whatever form of testing they did to determine "normal".....Once we have those numbers we can tell you if the numbers fall in line with where they need to be.

Its nice that they are there trying to get this figured out. Its sad that they don't have resources they can turn too where they could get answers. Cause between refrigerant charge, the TXV operation, The airflow issue, the oversized evaporator coil to furnace case without proper transition, they could have this figured out in no time.
 
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Discussion starter · #116 ·
Yes, I do remember. I was told they would leave those with me today. They did not. They did say they would “type them up and send them to me”
I had to leave so I was not here for the last 3 hours, but apparently they were told to get the moisture out of the line, for the refrigerant and try again, even though they didn’t think it would work, that was the instructions from Lennox. They did and it worked. I came home to a cool upstairs! A unit that is now running at 80db and hasn’t done anything louder. Condensation is very minimal, no more water running into the furnace grates. They added clear silicone all over. To all joints and holes in system. The flexible duct work has been straightened out and hitched up better (I still requested they install the metal elbow we paid for and another metal elbow, at my expense, supply and return, based off recommendations here- and because I paid for one, the duct work for the basement unit is entirely metal by comparison)

I *think* it may be fixed. I am going to get those numbers because I want them for here and for my own records given all the problems. The other identical unit, purchased installed the same day, has continued to run flawlessly this entire time. To me, the lay person, It’s very weird this one needed so many parts replaced in its first 90 days of life.

jacob-k said:
DO you remember early on in this thread I said the refrigerant numbers would tell us a lot? Well the refrigerant numbers is how you would know the "valve" is wide open. The "Valve" is a metering device that allows refrigerant into the evaporator and its called a TXV(thermal expansion valve)....This may or may not be the issue! We would need to know what the subcooling number is.

There is no such thing as Airflow is normal.....Ask for the static pressure numbers, CFM numbers from the traverse or flow hood they used, or whatever form of testing they did to determine "normal".....Once we have those numbers we can tell you if the numbers fall in line with where they need to be.

Its nice that they are there trying to get this figured out. Its sad that they don't have resources they can turn too where they could get answers. Cause between refrigerant charge, the TXV operation, The airflow issue, the oversized evaporator coil to furnace case without proper transition, they could have this figured out in no time.
Click to expand...
 

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#117 ·
scubagirl007 said:
They were instructed to change the evaporator. The original evaporator was the same size? This was a new one. It’s larger. They don’t any anymore stock of old one. They put metal transitions bars on. They are outside the suction valve is “wide open” and no refrigerant is flowing. There should be a “big cloud” outside with valve right open, no refrigerant is flowing through suction valve? They think THIS is the problem now, they are back on phone with Lennox. They said evaporator didn’t need changed it was a suction valve problem?
Click to expand...
This is installed wrong as mentioned by others. It requires a proper sheet metal transition to be installed if they want to use that coil with that furnace.

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#118 ·
As Jacob-k has already mentioned, actual numbers would help a lot.

Sorry but they should have already had all of these numbers if they had done a proper startup and commissioning report. They should have been able to send you that report without issue. They should have tons of readings and hard data considering all the issues you have had. There is no excuse for not having the data to give to you before they even started working today.

The guys on site may be nice, but the company is blowing a lot of smoke around. Good and fine are not proper diagnostics for HVAC equipment.
scubagirl007 said:
Update: they have been on site for 4 hours. I still don’t have the numbers you requested, but they are working in heat and high humidity currently so I am not pestering while they still work. They are very apologetic and courteous today, and I can really tell at this point they are throwing everything at this. He said there was a lot of water that got into my heater unit from all of this, so yes it needs to be solved and not drug out.
1. They did air flow studies. Those were “normal”.
2. They said I don’t need an oil trap because my evaporator inside is higher than the thing outside, if it was reversed it would need one.
3. They are as frustrated as I am and want a Lennox person on site. They were denied. (Not assigning blame here I assume Lennox is as short staffed as many other places)
4. Lennox has determined via phone that it is the indoor evaporator coil (I may have this word wrong) it’s something inside the unit in the attic.
5. There is No “kink” in air flow, it has nice big bend. It may look that way to me but he said no. He doesn’t think metal elbow will do anything for air flow because it’s perfect.

That’s all I know as of 12 noon EST
Click to expand...
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#119 ·
BALloyd said:
As Jacob-k has already mentioned, actual numbers would help a lot.

Sorry but they should have already had all of these numbers if they had done a proper startup and commissioning report. They should have been able to send you that report without issue. They should have tons of readings and hard data considering all the issues you have had. There is no excuse for not having the data to give to you before they even started working today.

The guys on site may be nice, but the company is blowing a lot of smoke around. Good and fine are not proper diagnostics for HVAC equipment.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
X-2
 
#120 ·
BALloyd said:
This is installed wrong as mentioned by others. It requires a proper sheet metal transition to be installed if they want to use that coil with that furnace.

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Click to expand...
One of our members here is a sheet metal wizard. I borrowed one of his pics that shows a proper sheet metal transition from a furnace to a different size cased evaporator coil. You can see it in the middle of the picture.
Image


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