"Ikeler" home. Flat, foam roof with cassettes. MXZ

heatingman said:

Mueller has a black coated armaflex out now that is very similar in toughness on the exterior to the white insulation.

I happen to have a sample:

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heatingman said:

On second viewing perhaps the zig zag white tubing was existing, water lines?


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Adlerberts-Protege said:

I am still in contact with most of these customers. No issues.

I will take my chances. If there are issues 5 years from now then they will pay me or someone else to fix. Is what it is, they are very popular, and the black stuff sucks, the Mueller stuff included.

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Zamoramax said:

I would love to say I found this. I fought tooth and nail not to do this. But this is a MXZ5c42 with a 12k and 9k wall mount. A 12k one way cassette. A 9k and 12k 4 way cassette. Line length was 210ft furthest being 70ft.
We had to remove 2 swamp coolers and enlarge the holes. This style of home has romex running across the top of the 2x6 t&g boards. So cutting is fun. The boxes for the 4 ways are 36x48 and the 1way is 28x72. Headed back tomorrow to finish the final details(a few straps, paint pvc, walk through ect ect).
I cant begin on how much I didn't want to do this. The 12k wall mount points down the hall at the 12k 4way while doing nothing to condition the frontroom/living room that its supposed to serve. The 9k is in a sun room thats probably 80% glass on the walls with 3 skylights and the room measures roughly 200-350²ft. The 12k 4 way is tucked into a quasi corner of the dining room with only 2½ of the vanes actually able to do something. The 9k 4way is in the hall way just past the laundry area and centered between two bedrooms just outside the bathroom. The master is a 12k 1way that positionally I can't complain for what it is.
This is a 2500²ft home with zero insulation on the walls and 40%ish glass for walls. 4 bedroom 2 bath. It's just blah.

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jacob-k said:

This job is totally f*cked

All you had to do was show me the MXZ-5C42 and I could tell you its screwed. This particular outdoor unit I will not sell. When I first started with mitsu I installed about 15 of them. I have since went back and replaced the primary zone with a single zone because they are piss poor performers. After about the 10th one Mitsu sent a rep out and found a unit that was matched 42k to 42k not working because the discharge superheat put the unit in a limp mode. After that mitsu offered to give me single zone replacements for free on all these units. I believe I have now replaced the main zone on about 11 of them and I believe the rest of them has likely had the houses sold to new owners. That outdoor unit is a very bad one.

And I will add that you have 54kbtu hooked up to a 42kbtu outdoor unit. Which is allowable at 130% capacity but amplifies the scenario I just spoke on.

Im not sure why there is a branch box.

Your sqft is likely to much, with that style of home, here in California, for that kind of install.....The unit you selected has issues, and the locations of heads units greatly amplify the situation since they wont be operating at full potential.

SO the units themselves I cant really comment on without pics of room and location of units. But I'm gonna give you a very simple understanding for installing these systems. The compressor has about 750-900 speeds. Its primary job is to run as efficiently as it can will doing what the customer is asking it to do. If it can Heat/Cool a space running at its very minimum speed that's what it will do. Putting a unit in a hallway or location where there is not much throw will cause the air to cycle back into the zone and it will simply slow down. You can put a 2 ton head in a 12'x12' room pointed at the doorway and virtually nothing will get out the doorway. These units are ROOM zones.

Yeah, not much about this install is good. And not speaking on Aesthetics. Sometimes we work with what we got. Im talking about Functionality.

IMO. When you get called back out. The first try at a solution would be to put everything on stats so the zones dont run at reduced capacities. Or at least the zones that they complain about. If you find that the primary zone is the complaint, or the one they say performs the worst you'll have to replace it with an additional outdoor unit. If they complain about multiple zones after the stat attempts I would put in a 4 ton outdoor and use that branch-box that's already up there.

Maybe they will just sell it and you'll never see it again...

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Zamoramax said:

I knew it was WOS material. For several reasons. I did not know the 5c42 had issues. I dont want to seem like I'm being rude because I'm not at all and I value your input 100%. There was no branch box here. 5 heads were piped to the CU. Had i sold it, it would have been two 4c36's with 7 heads. ALL WALL MOUNTS!
Either way I am embarrassed to have my name associated with the install. I did not want to do it and I contemplated taking a week off no pay just to show how much I didn't want this job.

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Zamoramax said:

I voiced myself. I was clear and brunt. Once it was done I got the we won't do it anymore speech. Until the next one... I was clear on the one they did prior that looked thunder f**ked.

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jacob-k said:

Theres a company here where the owner doesn't know how to say no.

Love sending them the jobs were the house was built around the HVAC....

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BBeerme said:

Such a block of text in the OP, I scrolled through the photos first. My first thought was Oh My Friggin' Gawd, sure glad I didn't get that job!

But I will say, nicely done!! Now let me read on and see what others say.

On a complete tangent, which of course has nothing to do with you, I've had a couple of [commercial] customers say what a bad idea it was to put foam on their roofs. It's like as soon as the warranty wears out, so does the roof. And they need a lot of maintenance. And apparently, once you put foam on, you are sort of locked into that for life. I never asked, but I'm guessing it cost more to remove the foam than it did to initially put on.

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jacob-k said:

I have no opinion on it.

Facts are facts.

One doesn't learn these issues unless they have done them themselves. I've licked my wounds plenty of times.

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