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KCMO-Guy

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Description of Issue - We have two central AC units in our home. One serves the basement, 1st floor, and a bathroom in the 2nd floor. The 2nd unit serves the remainder of the 2nd floor and the 3rd floor. That said, both units seem to run just fine for the most part, but after running for a while they both exhibit the same odd behavior. The blower fans under the coils will stop and then sound as if they're attempting to start up again only to stop, almost like bumping the motors with power and quickly disconnecting. They do this a few times and then eventually they will turn back on and start blowing air again. This does not happen every time the units call for cooling, but it happens quite often.

I have watched a lot of videos on what causes short cycling and cannot figure out why this is happening. Filters are clean upstream of blower, heat exchangers are clean on outside compressors. One of the blower motors is only a year old, one of the compressors is also a year old, and both blower capacitors are good. I've also checked the AC run capacitors on both outside compressors and they are both good.

I'm leaning towards a sizing or flow mismatch issue. I have thought about reducing the fan speed thinking maybe the blowers are too large. I intend on doing some quick calcs in the next week or so to see if there is a gross mismatch that sticks out (I am a mechanical engineer by trade but HVAC is not my specialty).

Anyone have any other ideas of things I can look to?
 
Motors overheating is all I've got. It would be good to know static pressures.
I've seen many, many mismatched systems and never known one to make a blower stop and start again.
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
Motors overheating is all I've got. It would be good to know static pressures.
I've seen many, many mismatched systems and never known one to make a blower stop and start again.
Yeah you may be right. The only reason I think it may be something different is I replaced one of the motors last year. I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility for it to fail in a year.
 
Yeah you may be right. The only reason I think it may be something different is I replaced one of the motors last year. I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility for it to fail in a year.
What was the static pressure then?
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
What was the static pressure then?
I have not measured it. I will figure out how and get that done. That said, now that you guys are mentioning it, I am fairly confident that is what's going on. I have noticed the air seems to be blasting out of the registers. It makes sense that the blower is just pressing too hard for too long and eventually tripping itself out on heat.

Assuming I can get some measurements and confirm that is indeed what's going on, besides resizing ductwork are there other remedies to try? I realize slowing the fan down will also reduce flow and potentially cause heat exchange balance issues with the compressor, but is that a feasible alternative within certain limits? Or, potentially a motor that's designed to run with a higher output continuously?
 
What thermostat? NEST?

What is the equipment, make and model?

ECM or psc motors?
 
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Discussion starter · #8 ·
What thermostat? NEST?

What is the equipment, make and model?

ECM or psc motors?
I have Nest thermostats on both. Should have mentioned I pulled the Nests and double checked that all of the wires were fit up well, which they were.

Just pulled the models for all the basement units, will follow up with the upstairs unit in a bit. I've pulled all of the manuals and am going through all the specs.

Downstairs (Basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor bath)
Furnace - 95AF1UH090P12C
AC Coil - C35-30/36C-2F
Condensing Unit - 4AC13L36P-7A

Upstairs Unit (2nd floor, 3rd floor)
Furnace - 95AF1UH110P20C-05
AC Coil - AC48D1C
Condensing Unit - 4AC13L48P-7A
 
I have Nest thermostats on both.
I have had 3 NEST stats do this the past 2 weeks. Pulled them, replaced with reliable Honeywell and no more issues.

Is this your issue, can't be sure without testing. I would start there before ANYWHERE else.

NEST = :stinks:
 
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Downstairs (Basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor bath)
Furnace - 95AF1UH090P12C
AC Coil - C35-30/36C-2F
Condensing Unit - 4AC13L36P-7A

Upstairs Unit (2nd floor, 3rd floor)
Furnace - 95AF1UH110P20C-05
AC Coil - AC48D1C
Condensing Unit - 4AC13L48P-7A
How big is the house and where is it located?

That seems like possibly oversized equipment.
 
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I have Nest thermostats on both. Should have mentioned I pulled the Nests and double checked that all of the wires were fit up well, which they were.
It doesn't matter. Nest, when installed per instructions WILL SCREW UP YOUR SYSTEM. It's the worst thermostat EVER!
 
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From what I gathered from your description of the problem it sounds like a control issue which would lead to either stat or board. Since you have a Nest I would be starting there, but as said it should be tested rather than just throwing money at the problem trying to find something that sticks.
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
Wow - I had no idea Nest thermostats had a bad name. I believe I still have the old thermostats I replaced so will swap those back out and see if it makes a difference.

That said, can someone tell me exactly why the nests have a bad name?
 
Wow - I had no idea Nest thermostats had a bad name. I believe I still have the old thermostats I replaced so will swap those back out and see if it makes a difference.

That said, can someone tell me exactly why the nests have a bad name?
The simple answer is they are a bad thermostat. They have been related to numerous odd issues with the operation of HVAC equipment over many years and various upgrades/version of the stat.
 
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Discussion starter · #15 ·
The simple answer is they are a bad thermostat. They have been related to numerous odd issues with the operation of HVAC equipment over many years and various upgrades/version of the stat.
OK. Well, I have swapped back in the old thermostats for now. Will report back on if that changes things. I've also ordered a manometer and some probes to grab my static pressures.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Sorry for the additional post but after reading up more on the nest and in general thermostats I think I may have found the issue. When we moved into the house a year and half ago they had old battery powered t-stats. When I put the nest in, I noticed they had a blue wire coiled back, and didnt think much of it so I just wired up with the wires I had (R, G, Y, and W). Now that I understand what the blue wire is, the common, I think what's going on is the nest is pulsing itself with power which is kicking the blower on and off, or pulsing it. I found this site with a recording, which sounds a lot like what I am experiencing.

https://marco.org/2011/12/17/nest-incompatibility-without-c-wire

That said, I do have a common terminal on my control board, and since the wire is already there, I just connected it up and connected the nest back. I will see if this eliminates the problem. I'm still considering replacing the nest, based on the advice you guys gave (which is appreciated), but I'd like to run this test to see if that's actually what's causing my issue.

Thanks again for all the tips.
 
Just LOOSE the Freeking NEST

POS
!
X a billion.

Replaced another one today.
Customer got a replacement from Google and it had even more issues!!
Put in a Honeywell and works like a champ.
 
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