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Daikin or Carrier?

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Eread

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
We're in the midst of replacing our HVAC system in WI. I have gotten 4 different quotes and all seem very reasonable from different companies and all had similar recommendations. The AC is being figured at 2.5 ton and all said that's a bit much for what we need, but not terribly so. In 5 years we plan a 700-800 sqft addition. Our current system is all Lennox and the the furnace is 26 years old and going strong, but the AC installed in '83 is done for. So it's all being replaced.

I've narrowed it down to a Carrier installer. He's used by a builder I know and they recommend him. Smaller company, I get a good feeling from him and would trust the quality of work. And a Daikin installer, much larger company, over 50 techs, very professional and put together. Actually all 4 companies I had come out, I felt pretty good about after talking with them, but personal connection and professionalism is drawing me to these 2 among other things.

So Carrier installer recommends Performance Series Model 59TP6a 2 stage variable speed 80KBTU natural gas furnace and a Comfort Series model 24ABB3 2.5 ton condenser with 14.5 seer indoor coil. I can upgrade to a comfort series 16 seer AC for a few hundred more. Comes with new Aprilaire 2410 filter, though that's not a big deal for me.

Daikin is recommending DM96VE080 also an 80K BTU natural gas furnace 2 stage, 5 speed blower and DX16SA030 16 SEER AC unit. This comes with the 2210 air cleaner.

I know of Carrier, I don't know much about Daikin, but they seem like a very solid company from what I can tell. Quotes are close enough the money doesn't matter, though Carrier was slightly better. I'm just not sure the best way to find out who the best installers are? From what I can tell the Daikin warranty is far and away better getting 6 year no hassle replacement. If something goes wrong, new unit installed at no cost and 12 year parts and 12 year labor where as carrier is 10 on parts and 1 on labor. Am I understanding that correctly?

any differences you guys can see with the equipment or questions to ask about installs? The Carrier company is smaller and I do have a personal connection there. But the warranty on the Daikin has me very interested. Or maybe I should see if I can get the same model as my 36 year old lennox :)

I know the installation is probably the most important part, but I think they're both probably pretty good from what I can tell. any tips? Suggestions? Thank you
 
#2 · (Edited)
“I don't know much about Daikin”

Daiken is the largest producer of HVAC equipment in the world..I believe

If your getting a 12 year labor warranty find out who’s offering it, chances it’s backed by Daiken. It’s not free but an extra charge. They could have buried the cost into the price if they never mentioned it to you.

The warranty alone is hard to beat. In order to get those warranties, ( Carrier or Daiken or other brands ) your system needs to be registered as if never registered, manufacturers warranty drops off.

Your gas or local utility company offers rebates?, if so need a AHRI number to prove matching systems are installed.

Quotes very close as you say, for the bare bone Carrier Performance series OD unit with at best a 14.5 SEER, doesn’t even have a louvered sheet metal cover covering the OD coil like the Daiken has and a standard 10/10 parts and compressor warranty and standard one year labor warranty vs a 12 year extended labor warranty, higher SEER unit, more factory standard parts on OD unit, 6 year whole unit replacement warranty on furnace and OD unit, 12 years parts warranty.Copeland® CoreSense advanced diagnostics monitors the system for trouble spots, compressor sound blanket. To me it’s a no brainer which one I would choose if installs and price are similar, even bumping up to the 16 SEER Carrier at more cost.

https://www.ahridirectory.org/Home/...ad?ReferenceId=sUzbLVC3/aFB9wkj0dGAH5NM3qNLVAili1VSEae5fhMYsnSyVQOE/bcanmmaUFes

Ask for something like this from them.
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
Bazooka Joey said:
“I don't know much about Daikin”

Daiken is the largest producer of HVAC equipment in the world..I believe

If your getting a 12 year labor warranty find out who’s offering it, chances it’s backed by Daiken. It’s not free but an extra charge. They could have buried the cost into the price if they never mentioned it to you.

The warranty alone is hard to beat. In order to get those warranties, ( Carrier or Daiken or other brands ) your system needs to be registered as if never registered, manufacturers warranty drops off.

Your gas or local utility company offers rebates?, if so need a AHRI number to prove matching systems are installed.

Quotes very close as you say, for the bare bone Carrier Performance series OD unit with at best a 14.5 SEER, doesn’t even have a louvered sheet metal cover covering the OD coil like the Daiken has and a standard 10/10 parts and compressor warranty and standard one year labor warranty vs a 12 year extended labor warranty, higher SEER unit, more factory standard parts on OD unit, 6 year whole unit replacement warranty on furnace and OD unit, 12 years parts warranty.Copeland® CoreSense advanced diagnostics monitors the system for trouble spots, compressor sound blanket. To me it’s a no brainer which one I would choose if installs and price are similar, even bumping up to the 16 SEER Carrier at more cost.


Ask for something like this from them.
Click to expand...
Neither quote came with AHRI numbers attached. The carrier bid did say the coil would match the AC to get the SEER number, but did not specify. The Daikin did not but I will ask for that. I was really going to go with Carrier before the last guy came today now I think i'd be crazy not to choose the Diakin.

I did check reviews and the one company has hundreds, ,mostly good, and obviously some bad. The other has few, some great and 2 or 3 bad. But I do have a personal referral to the smaller company from the build I know.
 
#5 ·
Yes, Daikin is bigger than Carrier by articles I've read. They are committed to USA by just building a huge HQ and factory near Houston. While Carrier builds more & more stuff in Mexico :(

In Carrier, the Comfort series is the bare bones. No cabinet to protect the coil, no compressor pressure protection switches, no sound deadening. The Performance has the cabinet, pressure switches and compressor sound blanket though not a quiet unit by any means. Carrier does have the advantage of the variable speed blower.
 
#6 ·
Tell them you’d want to see a manual j done to determine the proper equipment size and a copy of the equipment commissioning report. Who has made suggestions on ducting improvement? Oversized equipment on undersized ducting seems to be the rule rather than the exception. If your static pressure is high then the new motors will ramp up their speed to force the correct amount of airflow. This can cause noise issues, increased power consumption and shortened motor life depending on the severity of the static pressure
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Makeitcold said:
Tell them you’d want to see a manual j done to determine the proper equipment size and a copy of the equipment commissioning report. Who has made suggestions on ducting improvement? Oversized equipment on undersized ducting seems to be the rule rather than the exception. If your static pressure is high then the new motors will ramp up their speed to force the correct amount of airflow. This can cause noise issues, increased power consumption and shortened motor life depending on the severity of the static pressure
Click to expand...
Nobody mentioned manual J, but all of them went around measuring ducts, checked insulation in attic, counted windows etc. most of them said a 60K furnace was what they'd recommend for the house, but with an addition being planned, most bumped it up to an 80K

The Daikin guy made mention that after the install another tech would come out and check all the pressures etc before registering product for warranty. I had assumed that was just ac lines etc, but I'll ask about duct work.

Thank you.
 
#8 · (Edited)
“The Daikin guy made mention that after the install another tech would come out and check all the pressures etc before registering product for warranty. I had assumed that was just ac lines etc, but I'll ask about duct work. “

Whatever brand model you choose ask for the commissioning report/start up guide , as they are suppose to set everything up, things like static pressures, field refrigerant charge, temperature rise across Heat Exchanger, gas pressure, etc. are all within manufacturers specifications.

Have them explain sequence of operation to you also while in heating and cooling etc.

My mistake the comfort series is the bare bone model, which the Carrier Contractors proposed, I believe even in the 16 SEER model. The HX on the Carrier furnace says aluminized metal for the primary and SS for the secondary, whereas the Daiken says Stainless Steel HX for both primary and secondary. If I read it correctly :whistle:

Yes the Carrier furnace says variable blower, whereas the Daiken says multi speed ECM motor. If your stuck on a particular blower ask the Daiken to quote a Variable speed furnace.
 
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
I'd like to thank everyone for their help. We decided to go with the Daikin installer. The units seem more robust and nobody can touch that warranty. The furnace and AC both qualify for NRG rebates of 125 each. He said the AHRI numbers aren't on the quote, but will be made available because we'll need it for those rebates and all of that will be gone over with us at the time of install. I do trust they are a very upfront company and reputable after initial impressions and then doing some digging around. Turns out another build I know uses them exclusively for their homes as well.

With all this heat here, I'm hoping we get the install set up soon :) I'll update the thread after the install. Thanks again.
 
#11 ·
If those models where apples to apples comparison ( which they where not a bare bone Carrier OD unit with a lesser SEER. ) Easily would have still recommended the Daiken just for the extended labor warranty alone..( if that is correct that they are offering a full 12 year manufacturers labor warranty vs the one year by the Carrier Contractor. ) just make sure the extended labor warranty is backed by Daikin as if the Contractor is offering it and they go out of business your stuck with no labor warranty. The extended labor warranty name is Asure I believe from Daiken.

I’m somewhat surprised that the family owned smaller company ( typically less overhead ) offering the bare bone lesser SEER Carrier A/C was priced higher than the larger ( typically higher overhead ) better featured higher SEER unit Daiken.

Either Carrier is so high in price and paying for the name or the profit margin was much higher than the Daiken Contractor or both?

If it’s the 1st, no wonder Carrier dropped from being the number one HVAC manufacturing company in the USA and the world, as I remember those statements years ago from UTC/Carrier.

Believe Goodman ( under the Daiken umbrella ) is number one in residential sales in USA in heat and cooling from Robinson Supply House brochures ...possibly light commercial also and Daiken number one in the world....for the time being.
 
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#12 ·
Eread said:
From what I can tell the Daikin warranty is far and away better getting 6 year no hassle replacement. If something goes wrong, new unit installed at no cost and 12 year parts and 12 year labor where as carrier is 10 on parts and 1 on labor. Am I understanding that correctly?
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to the Daikin 12 labor warranty?
 
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#14 ·
The 6 or 12 year extended labor warranty ( the best in the industry ) should be stated in the contract and is offered by the bidding contractor, either backed by Daiken Asure program or offered by the bidding contractor own company at extra cost or cost is buried in the contract price.
 
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#15 ·
Bazooka Joey said:
The 6 or 12 year extended labor warranty ( the best in the industry ) should be stated in the contract and is offered by the bidding contractor, either backed by Daiken Asure program or offered by the bidding contractor own company at extra cost or cost is buried in the contract price.
Click to expand...
The link you provided was all about parts, maybe I'm just not seeing the labor warranty, is it hidden somewhere? :grin2: Ok I found it down at the bottom.


An Asure Service Agreement is only available through an Authorized Asure Dealer. Visit the Dealer Locator to find an Asure Dealer near you. **Not available in all states.
 
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#16 ·
Mr Bill said:
The link you provided was all about parts, maybe I'm just not seeing the labor warranty, is it hidden somewhere? :grin2: Ok I found it down at the bottom.


An Asure Service Agreement is only available through an Authorized Asure Dealer. Visit the Dealer Locator to find an Asure Dealer near you. **Not available in all states.
Click to expand...
No sorry...it was not me who posted the site about the parts and labor warranty...
 
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Discussion starter · #17 ·
Bazooka Joey said:
If those models where apples to apples comparison ( which they where not a bare bone Carrier OD unit with a lesser SEER. ) Easily would have still recommended the Daiken just for the extended labor warranty alone..( if that is correct that they are offering a full 12 year manufacturers labor warranty vs the one year by the Carrier Contractor. ) just make sure the extended labor warranty is backed by Daikin as if the Contractor is offering it and they go out of business your stuck with no labor warranty. The extended labor warranty name is Asure I believe from Daiken.

I’m somewhat surprised that the family owned smaller company ( typically less overhead ) offering the bare bone lesser SEER Carrier A/C was priced higher than the larger ( typically higher overhead ) better featured higher SEER unit Daiken.

Either Carrier is so high in price and paying for the name or the profit margin was much higher than the Daiken Contractor or both?

If it’s the 1st, no wonder Carrier dropped from being the number one HVAC manufacturing company in the USA and the world, as I remember those statements years ago from UTC/Carrier.

Believe Goodman ( under the Daiken umbrella ) is number one in residential sales in USA in heat and cooling from Robinson Supply House brochures ...possibly light commercial also and Daiken number one in the world....for the time being.
Click to expand...

I don't have official paperwork yet, but as he explained it,I believe it was backed by Daiken. At least that was my impression. He went thru a couple scenarios, and noted that they pay us to come out and replace/fix it. But if it was a dealer warranty, These guys have been around a while, but I do realize even the best can go under for various reasons.

The carrier company was actually less, I won't give actual numbers because I don't think we're supposed to, but with the 14 SEER AC and cash up front it was almost 700 different in favor of the carrier. But they had factored in the 250 in NRG rebate I can get so really only about a 450 actual dollar difference. Then upgrade to comprable AC in terms of SEER added 380ish to the bill.

The Daikin installer did NOT include the rebates in the quote since it wasn't money off the install price, it was money we get back from our energy company once we send in the paperwork. He did assure us that both the furnace and AC meet the requirements and they'd have everything filled out for us to send in to claim our 250. So after all that, they were just under the Carrier quote.
 
#19 ·
Eread said:
I don't have official paperwork yet, but as he explained it,I believe it was backed by Daiken. At least that was my impression. He went thru a couple scenarios, and noted that they pay us to come out and replace/fix it. But if it was a dealer warranty, These guys have been around a while, but I do realize even the best can go under for various reasons.

The carrier company was actually less, I won't give actual numbers because I don't think we're supposed to, but with the 14 SEER AC and cash up front it was almost 700 different in favor of the carrier. But they had factored in the 250 in NRG rebate I can get so really only about a 450 actual dollar difference. Then upgrade to comprable AC in terms of SEER added 380ish to the bill.

The Daikin installer did NOT include the rebates in the quote since it wasn't money off the install price, it was money we get back from our energy company once we send in the paperwork. He did assure us that both the furnace and AC meet the requirements and they'd have everything filled out for us to send in to claim our 250. So after all that, they were just under the Carrier quote.
Click to expand...
You should be getting a rebate for the Daiken 16 SEER ( providing it’s a match ) and has the proper AHRI number as typically 16 SEER and a certain minimal EER gives you the minimum threshold for one, if your state or local utility company offers ones. Then being a high efficiency 96+ furnace even with a Multispeed ECM motor you should also get a rebate from either your state or local gas company, as typically the minimum threshold is 95%+

The Carrier 14.5 SEER does not qualify for any rebates ( IMO ) as it does not meet a minimum threshold. The furnace yes.

I would not sign a contract without getting the AHRI number proving your getting the 14.5 SEER for the Carrier or at least 16 SEER for the Daiken. Keeps them on their toes.

I would also not sign a contract if you go with the Daikin and they told you your getting the 12 year extended labor warranty unless it’s in the contract.

In regards to long established companies not going out of business ( if extended labor warranty is offered by bidding Contractor vs backed by manufacturers) Sears is but one company barely holding on. Radio Shack just about out of business, the list goes on and on.....
 
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#20 ·
Bazooka Joey said:
I would also not sign a contract if you go with the Daikin and they told you your getting the 12 year extended labor warranty unless it’s in the contract.
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I agree!
 
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Eread
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