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Discussion starter · #21 ·
So, QC manager thinks he has it nailed down. Sounds like the techs previous notes only talk about the one upstairs unit, so he might have skipped the downstairs unit, He is on vacation so no idea.

So they hooked up and said yeah, the red dial looks fine, but the blue side is low, he suspects bad TXV indoors.

Downstairs unit was a mess on his digital setup, he suspects low so is going to add a touch of refrigerant and see what happens. The unit is only pulling 10amp and should be at like 21.

Being nice and all that.
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
I agree! But he’s probably spent more money than a new system would cost him in getting duct work corrected, and still has issues, go figure!
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Not exactly, but maybe close. Not getting into cost details. but in their pitch for the work they made it very clear that both units needed to move, including drain down and cutting copper, so the bid given for plenums and returns was pretty high. In the end the tech that came to do the work only had to move one unit and did it without cutting copper or draining down. So saved himself a bundle of time and risk. We are now in a back and forth on final cost, as I myself suggested it looked like we had lots of space on the copper and questioned the need to cut. They, the experts, said it had to happen, so when it didn't I assumed we would all break bread and enjoy our luck.

No price yet from the boss man on this seperate work to get the units actually cooling. What I wonder is, if they had identified the real issues from the begining would I have solved those and skipped the pressure testing and duct work? I probably would have had more functional AC than the duct alone got me.
 
What I wonder is, if they had identified the real issues from the begining would I have solved those and skipped the pressure testing and duct work? I probably would have had more functional AC than the duct alone got me.
I agree with you on this! Maybe not perfect, but more functional.

As John Wayne would have said, they took the long way around the barn. :)


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Discussion starter · #24 ·
QC Mgr left with a diagnosis on both units (which I should have gotten 2 weeks ago). But because we are in dispute over the airflow work, said they could not fix my ac until that was settled. Since that doesn't seem likely I guess I call somebody else. Lucky me another hot night.
 
....and did anyone look at the building envelope for infiltration? Not there to look, but I've seen homes with massive air leaks. A/C runs nonstop, never cools down satisfactorily. Might not be an issue, but no one has mentioned it, so I did.
 
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Ductwork problems are common. This could have been a legitimate upgrade. I would suggest that a manual D would reveal that the ductwork is now up to snuff, and all you need is the refrigerant side solved.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Alright, so second company is here. Told them what the QC mgr said about the two units, they poked around as well and think the upstairs 2.5T needs about 1.5lb, as it is the first time we've had to service we are just going to add and see. For the 4T, where the other company said possible TXV, this guy is leaning towards just starting with a full flush, vacuum, and new refrigerant and cleaning the outdoor unit. He is not impressed with the 8yo ADP coil up there and suggests that if the full refill does not sort it out they will replace the whole coil (another ADP) with a new TXV valve all for less than the first guy wanted for just a TXV. So not sure.

on the schedule for the 4T next monday as he didn't have enough refrigerant on hand for it. The smaller unit is getting topped off now.

So could you see near zero SC and super high SH just based on bad/low refrigerant/vacuum? Or is this just a refill with no need.

The refrigerant cost is super low, so not like he is price gouging me over that. IE, he isn't getting rich on the vacuum and refill.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
10 min after we added 1.5lbs to the 2.5T upstairs unit I am getting splits of 16F, they said wait a few hours and check. They also are recommended a deep clean on the outside unit to help it out. So I am confident we are back above 18F across the unit. For less than the cost of dinner(fancy) and a movie for a family of 4.

So lets see how Monday goes for the larger unit.
 
Zero SC and high SH would typically be a low charge.

My question would be "why?" Is there a leak?
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
So the second AC guy came back today. We are still getting 18-20 degree splits at the unit from the 2.5T system that he added 1.5lbs of 410a to on Friday, so seems all good. He removed the old 410 and pulled a vac on the 4T system. Held a vacuum very well so he brought it up to normal pressures with fresh 410a. All well according to his digital gauge setup. We suddenly had cold air at the ducts (68* @ 95F outside). Now a few hours later, still seems cold but I went to the attic and am getting 82-68 F across the unit. The smaller unit is putting out 60F air at the supply side, so I am guessing something is still not right with the 4T unit. It is now 103F outside and even hotter in the attic, but the split is still not much. Outside, the large copper line was sweaty and cold when he left but a few hours later is dry and only cool now.

Thoughts? The first company thought TXV and refrigerant, the second guy thought just refrigerant and did not touch the TXV.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Most of us, would have checked super heat and subcool of the unit. And did diagnostics using that info. Not just said pressures look normal.
He refilled the system and spent another 30 min or so with it running, checking gauge values. He had previously commented on SCSH so I am assuming he looked at the same after adding refrigerant.

He'll be back out tomorrow.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
Over the phone he asked me to send him the SN on the unit outside as he wants to check warranty. He said the only thing it could be is the outside unit. We are under warranty, but I am sure there will be labor that we would have to cover. Presumably I now need a third opinion.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
Brian, one of the HVAC-Talk approved contractors near me, is coming by tomorrow. Yet another service call, but he sounds like the smartest guy of the bunch.

Contractor 2 called me back a few minutes ago and told me because the TXV valve was built into the coil from ADP (LH41/61D9C), it was very unlikely that it was the problem and if it was, we would be best to replace the coil. BUt he thinks it is the outside compressor. Hopefully Brian can sort it all out tomorrow.
 
Contractor 2 called me back a few minutes ago and told me because the TXV valve was built into the coil from ADP (LH41/61D9C), it was very unlikely that it was the problem and if it was, we would be best to replace the coil.
What? Can this be true? Or, are we just loosing techs with the ability to troubleshoot. :(


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Discussion starter · #39 ·
I spent 45min on the phone with Lennox who had all the original install details and system info. They actually agreed that the specific ADP coil would not likely need a new TXV as it was built into the coil or something. They also suggested there were minimal things that could be to blame, though did introduce the motherboard as a possibility. If I get a totally off the wall diagnosis tomorrow they suggested they could send out a lennox regional guy to look at it.

I'm not sure I have gotten a legit diagnosis out of anyone, so hoping the guy tomorrow can impress me with more than suggestions on what to try next.
 
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