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Recommendations Direct Vent Gas Boiler

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FloTee

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi,
Can someone recommend a heating system, I am looking for a reliable conventional direct vent gas boiler and a reliable hot water tank (direct? indirect? I don't know) that won't explode in 10-12 years. 2200 sq ft house, 3.5 baths, New York. The contractors I have been calling don't seem to have any opinions on equipment, they just sell whatever their boss gets a discount on. I don't want any headaches, I want a system that I won't have to worry about, so if professionals can respond with their experience and what you like and why, I'd appreciate it.

Also if you can tell me what kind of maintenance I can expect to need to do and how often. I have oil now, called 1x a year for a cleaning and never had any problems; didn't need a water heater so that's new for us. Have a friend who got a superstor water heater with a lifetime warranty. Are those any good? They don't have the anode rods in them so allegedly they never go bad.

Thanks in advance!
 
#2 ·
Take a look at the HTP UFT mod/con. HTP makes the SuperStor.

A word of caution: the installer/contractor is 98% of the equation. Very few plumbers or HVAC contractors are competent with hydronics. Do your homework and find a hydronic specialist and go with what he recommends.
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
bobboan said:
Take a look at the HTP UFT mod/con. HTP makes the SuperStor.

A word of caution: the installer/contractor is 98% of the equation. Very few plumbers or HVAC contractors are competent with hydronics. Do your homework and find a hydronic specialist and go with what he recommends.
Click to expand...
Finding a "competent" contractor is the problem and the reason I came here for help. What are the advantages/disadvantages of a mod con and how do they compare price wise? Thanks.
 
#4 ·
FloTee said:
Finding a "competent" contractor is the problem and the reason I came here for help. What are the advantages/disadvantages of a mod con and how do they compare price wise? Thanks.
Click to expand...
You can’t have a mod con with oil.

Are you planning on switching to propane?
 
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#7 ·
I install boilers both residential and commercial. I'm not a fan of modulating, high efficiency equipment. I've worked on cast iron boilers that were almost 100 years old. They still worked well and obtained efficiency ratings of around 80% which is perfectly respectable. There's something to be said for systems that require very little maintenance, always work, and are very long lived.

Modulating boilers are very expensive to repair and require a lot more work. This includes but is not limited to yearly inspections.

The last commercial boiler I installed was a Raypak gravity vented boiler. It achieved a 83% efficiency rating, was quiet, simple and I'm sure it will last at least 30 years in that facility. It will only need a heat exchanger cleaning maybe once every 5 years.

My advice would be to install something simple. Your going to save a fortune by converting to natural gas and it would be a shame to install something that has to be fixed every year. That would quickly negate the saving your hoping to achieve.
 
#8 ·
I love mod con nat gas boiler..... with outdoor reset and indirect water heater. The new HTP might be a better choice than the old "Munchkin" which had many issues mainly with folks that did not heed the explicit install instructions... I'd opt for one with a firetube design. (ask installer, if he knows, that is a good sign. If not?...)

I installed one of the munchkins on an old home with cast iron radiators and outdoor reset. Home owner called and said that with the bang bang control on the old boiler, they were either freezing or boiling and breaking the bank with the gas bill. After the change out, they said the heating system "disappeared" and they were always comfortable. Gas bill also came close to disappearing.
 
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#9 ·
Almost forgot to mention.... Buy the smallest boiler that will heat your home and the largest indirect water heater you can tolerate on your budget. You want the heat to run as long as it can at the lowest input it will do and the big water tank will give you looong hot showers and fill your garden tubs full of nice warm water..
 
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#10 ·
the Navien combi boilers are pretty good. They have a condensing modulating boiler and a hot water make built in one unit. If you want a separate unit for each, Dunkirk makes a good condensing boiler (VLT or DCC depending upon the size needed). Weil-McLain and HTP make good indirects.
 
#11 ·
A lot depends upon your radiation. Baseboard requires a lot higher temp especially in cold weather. Then you'll be running 85% efficiency, might as well have a nice, simple cast iron boiler. Old radiators and in floor radiation work great with cooler water where a mod con gets efficient.

If you can't find a good contractor here, lot of guys especially in the NE hang out at heatinghelp.com and they have a find a contractor feature. These are the guys that know hydronic heat.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
BaldLoonie said:
A lot depends upon your radiation. Baseboard requires a lot higher temp especially in cold weather. Then you'll be running 85% efficiency, might as well have a nice, simple cast iron boiler. Old radiators and in floor radiation work great with cooler water where a mod con gets efficient.

If you can't find a good contractor here, lot of guys especially in the NE hang out at heatinghelp.com and they have a find a contractor feature. These are the guys that know hydronic heat.
Click to expand...
That's basically what I'm asking for a recommendation on. Which direct vent gas boiler products are good? I want to install something that isn't going to break in the middle of winter. There has to be a direct vent cast iron boiler, right?

It's a baseboard system but I might do radiant in 2 rooms. Is there anything I have to consider in the purchase of the boilder in case I do the radiant down the road?

Thanks.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Is the Burnham ESC direct vent any good? If not, what would you recommend? What's a good long lifetime hot water heater to pair with it? Is there anything to know about maintenance requirements for a system that's not using a chimney? Thank you in advance.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
James Colver said:
I install boilers both residential and commercial. I'm not a fan of modulating, high efficiency equipment. I've worked on cast iron boilers that were almost 100 years old. They still worked well and obtained efficiency ratings of around 80% which is perfectly respectable. There's something to be said for systems that require very little maintenance, always work, and are very long lived.

Modulating boilers are very expensive to repair and require a lot more work. This includes but is not limited to yearly inspections.

The last commercial boiler I installed was a Raypak gravity vented boiler. It achieved a 83% efficiency rating, was quiet, simple and I'm sure it will last at least 30 years in that facility. It will only need a heat exchanger cleaning maybe once every 5 years.

My advice would be to install something simple. Your going to save a fortune by converting to natural gas and it would be a shame to install something that has to be fixed every year. That would quickly negate the saving your hoping to achieve.
Click to expand...
I like your thought process, can you make a recommendation on make/model so I can find an installer? I don't want one of these new efficient systems that break every winter. When my pipes burst? That will cost more than the 10% energy savings!
 
#18 ·
FloTee said:
I like your thought process, can you make a recommendation on make/model so I can find an installer? I don't want one of these new efficient systems that break every winter. When my pipes burst? That will cost more than the 10% energy savings!
Click to expand...
A little info:
First, IDK who gave you the impression that mod/cons break every winter; they don't. We have dozens of these out on simple baseboards systems to those that are very complex and they a very reliable if installed and maintained correctly. I see more repairs in a given winter on cast iron boilers already in service than mod/cons we've installed. The complexity of a mod/con is really not much greater than an atmospheric with a vent damper. I think this rumor about more break downs comes from inexperienced or incompetent contractors who cannot properly install or service mod/cons.

Second, there's a lot more efficiency than what is indicated by just the AFUE rating. That number does not take into consideration the outdoor reset feature which can easily account for another 15 - 20% in fuel savings - even with BBs. We install mod/cons with BBs regularly and customers have confirmed these numbers.

Third, as far as initial cost, the HTP UFT that I recommended is in line with a cast iron boiler and may be less that a direct vent which will require S.S. piping.

Fourth, because of the ODR feature which varies the water temp based upon load, your house will have greater comfort than with a C.I. that's constantly banging on and off at 180* SWT.

The only thing that the C.I. will have an advantage in is life expectancy. Assuming both are installed and maintained properly, a GOOD mod/con should last 20 years and a C.I. about 25 - 30.
 
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#19 ·
FloTee said:
That's a condensing boiler. I was looking for a conventional boiler. Minimizing problems is most important to me. Thanks.
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It's passive condensing. Without the secondary exchanger it's just this boiler:

Image



Which is 86-88% efficient cast iron. All the internals are the same. Same blower, same burner, same control, same cast iron. I have units out there with almost no maintenance that are nearly 30 years old. I think I put on an auto vent and a pump.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
HVAC_Marc said:
It's passive condensing. Without the secondary exchanger it's just this boiler:

Image



Which is 86-88% efficient cast iron. All the internals are the same. Same blower, same burner, same control, same cast iron. I have units out there with almost no maintenance that are nearly 30 years old. I think I put on an auto vent and a pump.
Click to expand...
You have the passive ones, correct?
 
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