R410a vs R407c - which would you install in your home ?

mrkelly · Jul 1, 2016

What sticks in my claw

That would be Craw.
Southern Slang for Throat. As in Chickens. Yeah, "We Un's said it first and Know.

410 is on the 'hit' list also,so expect IT to be 'gone' Soon as well and "Then what"?

Funeral Fan's anyone??

Good LAWD!!!

Poodle Head Mikey · Jul 2, 2016

You'd lose that bet hoss. <g>

New Jersey is on a coast.

And New Jersey has had Cowtown Rodeo since about 1929. In fact; Cowtown is the oldest weekly rodeo in America. And they are still packing them in.

PHM
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rsmith46 said:
I'm 2 blocks from the American Royal where they hold a 10 days livestock show and competition every year.
Actually kind of fun and interesting, they hold Rodeo's all the time too. Bet people on the coasts have never been to a Rodeo.

ozydeco · Jul 2, 2016

I do not know...that is a good question Sir....

rsmith46 · Jul 2, 2016

Kansas City's nickname is Cowtown.

Here in the Midwest we don't get many chances to rip on the coasts.
Cowtown Rodeo is kind of like Wild Bill's Wild West Show, you know scripted.
:grin2:

mcewans · Jul 2, 2016

I heard that R407C fractionalizes less than R410A making it easier to "top off" in the event of a small leak. Do you have to recover the entire charge with R410A in case of a low charge? I have converted two systems from R22 to R407C with no problems.

craig1 · Jul 2, 2016

mcewans said:
I heard that R407C fractionalizes less than R410A making it easier to "top off" in the event of a small leak. Do you have to recover the entire charge with R410A in case of a low charge? I have converted two systems from R22 to R407C with no problems.

407c fractionates MUCH MORE than 410a.

hevysrf · Jul 2, 2016

Sooner or later some government agency will get a bug up its behind about 410a's high gwp, then we can all make more money changing out systems again.

BBeerme · Jul 2, 2016

Yeah this whole 'global warming' and 'save the environment' is not based on science. Well, it sort of is. But flawed science, bad interpretations and assumptions.

Making a decision about your A/C and saving the environment would be foolish.

hevysrf said:
Sooner or later some government agency will get a bug up its behind about 410a's high gwp, then we can all make more money changing out systems again.

mrkelly · Jul 3, 2016

will get a bug up its behind about 410a's high gwp,

They already have. 410 WILL be Gone Soon enough.
You guy's not read HVACR News?

mrkelly · Jul 3, 2016

bad interpretations and assumptions.

Called,
MONEY.......

However They can 'GET IT'. THEY Will figure out someway to Outlaw IT and Profit from IT.

syndicated · Jul 3, 2016

I just installed an r-22 system in my house, a flood "damaged" condenser and an evap I got on close out after inventory.
I even filled it with recovered gas. Whole set up might have cost me $200. When 22 is too expensive, and I have the need, I'll just dump 407c in.

With all the coil issues with 410a, I didn't want to go down that road.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Snapperhead · Jul 3, 2016

Poodle Head Mikey said:
1st floor - I kept the leak-tight 1984 Coleman 5 ton condensing unit, installed a 15,000 BTU R-22/mineral oil rotary compressor in it, installed a 3 ton ADP horizontal evaporator, (I forget what TXV I used but maybe a balanced port 2-3 ton), left the 1 1/8" suction line in place, and recharged with R-407C.

Holy subcooling ....

Poodle Head Mikey said:
I am in the process of building a 2 1/2 ton system for my country club using a 5 ton R-410 condensing unit, a 2 1/2 ton Carrier evaporator, and an 2 1/2 ton R-134 TXV. System will be charged with R-134.

PHM
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I assume you forgot to mention this unit will be getting a Much smaller compressor as well ?

beenthere · Jul 3, 2016

ozydeco said:
m singer - you are absolutely right about the 'lower compression ratio' - the smaller scrolls do lower the compression ratio. Please forgive me for mis-speaking - 'R410a's higher pressures required a compressor with lower compression ratio to prevent stalls.'

Regarding the specialized R410a compressors being 'more reliable' - since they have more internal parts, engineering RSA dictates they will be less reliable - what happens in the real world remains to be seen.

What sticks in my claw is that; 'OEM's choice to use R410a was based purely on manufacturing cost, higher enthalpy + higher pressures' - we can build smaller equipment'..... No consideration for the fact that R410a loses cooling capacity above 95 degrees ambient, or long-term reliability or anything else.... just manufacturing cost.

Copeland has had fewer actual compressor failures(number and percentage wise) on R410A compressors then on R22 compressors. This was due to the myths they came out with about POE oil. Causing many that never vacuumed system before to do so.

jtrammel · Jul 3, 2016

We have all kinds of rodeos, livestock shows/sales here in upstate SC.

I'd go with r22 in my own house. Screw GWP and all that jazz.

Poodle Head Mikey · Jul 3, 2016

No; the CC frankenstein will keep the R-410 condensing unit with it's original 5 ton compressor. Inside a 2.5 ton coil with a R-134 2.5 ton TXV grafted on.

You must have meant to say: Holy Low Head Pressure Batman!

At my house the 1st floor system's SC is about 9-10º - it's the head pressure which trends low. <g> I originally had concern that I couldn't maintain a 100 lb. PD across the TXV (and rightfully so as it turned out <g>) but the TXV always seems to accurately maintain the SSH at setpoint so I stopped thinking about it.

I can't remember when I put that together but several years ago now. And it has never even hiccuped. The rotary backspins on shutdown but rather than add a discharge check valve I installed a scrap compressor sound jacket so now I don't hear the backspin.

PHM
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Snapperhead said:
Holy subcooling ....

I assume you forgot to mention this unit will be getting a Much smaller compressor as well ?

ozydeco · Jul 3, 2016

Poodle - impressive to me... I'd love to get to that level of expertise - select usable coils and condensers and know how to make them work together - I still don't understand the oil compatibility thing... Does it damage equipment retrofitting with refrigerant that has different oil ? Even if you change the oil in the compressor, isn't there quite a bit left in the evap and elsewhere ? I see videos and read of some guys simply charging an existing mineral oil system with a new refrigerant that's POE - it starts-up and runs - and they call it 'working'..... I don't get it ? Is this a long term 'reliability & lifetime' issue or short term as in a few years ?

Poodle Head Mikey · Jul 3, 2016

Speaking of what machines sound like: when I am awake in bed, or sitting out on my back porch when it is still outside, I hear that one of my units is unhappy. Based on what is cycled on or off I have concluded that it is the stock 1.5 ton 13 SEER Goodman heat pump condensing unit.

Well; it's not Fully stock - I added a 240/24 transformer to permanently power the RV so I didn't have to listen it's shift-sound at night.

It's connected to a Unico AH so it runs about a 33º suction. That must have the actual pumped capacity somewhere between 12,000 and 15,000 BTU's. It used to sound fine - but now it bothers my mechanical ear. Caps check perfect, connections are tight, contactor still looks new, motor sounds nice when run by itself and has no radial or axial play in the shaft. There is no undo vibration or damage to the blades. Coil is clean - the airflow is straight up.

Checking it - it seems textbook. When I hear it from 10-20 feet - it makes me feel that something about it is not right.

Maybe I should put a sound jacket on the compressor and forget about it? <g>

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Snapperhead said:
Holy subcooling ....

I assume you forgot to mention this unit will be getting a Much smaller compressor as well ?

eraserlew · Jul 3, 2016

Was told 407c units will replace dry 22 units by a major supply house.

jtrammel · Jul 3, 2016

eraserlew said:
Was told 407c units will replace dry 22 units by a major supply house.

They're the exact same thing, no difference between the 2.

Poodle Head Mikey · Jul 3, 2016

Yes there it - a Big difference. Selling R-22 equipment is going to be illegal, or at least frowned upon.

The R-407C units will be clearly labeled:

Refrigerant: R-407C

Problem solved! <g>

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jtrammel said:
They're the exact same thing, no difference between the 2.

R410a vs R407c - which would you install in your home ?

mrkelly

Poodle Head Mikey

ozydeco

rsmith46

mcewans

craig1

hevysrf

BBeerme

mrkelly

mrkelly

syndicated

Snapperhead

beenthere

jtrammel

Poodle Head Mikey

ozydeco

Poodle Head Mikey

eraserlew

jtrammel

Poodle Head Mikey

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