Visiting Parents for Christmas - Limited AC

wilcharl · Dec 26, 2015

I came home to my parents house in Georgia for Christmas. Turned their AC on and did not think it was cooling very well . Grabbed the suction line and it was not beer can cold .

They have a service contract with a major HVAC contractor and I suggested that when they get their next PM in March that they may need some repairs.

This morning, I found the paperwork from their last AC PM that was done this past march. Obviously a lot can go wrong/change in 9 months but here were the numbers the tech put down:

It is a 12 year old 3.5 Ton Trane R-22 AC. The evaporator was NOT replaced 12 years ago when the AC was replaced and is likely 25+ years old. (Its in a crawl space and I have not looked)

Anyways here were the numbers:

Superheat: 33
Subcool: 2
Suction Line Pressure: 47
Liquid Line Pressure: 104
Outdoor Temp 48
Delta T : 22

Do these numbers look good? Again, these were in March so a lot can change in the last nine months...

Ive never been a fan of the big AC companies and their maintenance plans. What I noticed is the tech was there less then 30 minutes (by his own report of start/end time)

When they get their AC PM in March, depending on the report, I am inclined to recommend they get one of the folks off this forum for future service.

Thx everyone

Bazooka Joe · Dec 26, 2015

Who knows if those numbers are really real, to cold a OD temperature to check the A/C even if they covered the outdoor coil to raise pressures, the indoor room temperature is probably to cold also.

Suggest having them come out when outdoor and indoor temperatures are much warmer when you have your next PM check.

wilcharl · Dec 26, 2015

That was my first thought! Looks like he got there first thing in the morning and it wasn't even a 50 degree day!

JES · Dec 26, 2015

I think the Suction and Liquid lines are Temp not pressure. Subcool is low.

wilcharl · Dec 26, 2015

Your right those better be temps and not pressures! The slip was chickenscratch and looked like it said LLP and SLP

beenthere · Dec 26, 2015

JES said:
I think the Suction and Liquid lines are Temp not pressure. Subcool is low.

Well, if the suction and liquid lines are temps, then something was seriously wrong when he was there. 47° suction line sat with 33°SH means the suction line was 80°. If it was actual suction line temp. 47° line temp-33°SH means the saturation temp was 14°.
The listed readings as pressure, look low for a 45° day for a 12 year old ondenser.

wilcharl · Dec 26, 2015

beenthere said:
Well, if the suction and liquid lines are temps, then something was seriously wrong when he was there. 47° suction line sat with 33°SH means the suction line was 80°. If it was actual suction line temp. 47° line temp-33°SH means the saturation temp was 14°.
The listed readings as pressure, look low for a 45° day for a 12 year old ondenser.

I looked at the ticket again and he wrote the numbers down at the bottom of the ticket in the little blocks. In the blocks it only says LIQ and SUC so honestly I don't know if they were liquid or suction line temps or pressures.

. He also wrote. 9.1 mf value on furnace cap and 54+5 mf value on AC caps. " From the look of the system pass inspection, Freon look okay"

So it looks like he checked the blower , fan and compressor capacitors as part of his service, but as he said "Freon look okay"

There are two contractors listed on the Pro maps on this site one of who I know is an active forum participant. My father is going to schedule his service contract service on a hot day (instead of a cold March morning) and if the service tech can't explain/answer questions about the numbers, we will be contacting one of the Pros from this forum!

wilcharl · Dec 26, 2015

So I dug out three more tickets. One was a trouble ticket for no cooling and they replaced the cap. For the temperatures/pressures they wrote 7 6 5 4 3 2 (lovely)

Another one has

SUC 46
LIQ 110
Outdoor Temp 60 degrees
(nothing for subcooling or super heat)

The other ticket has

16 SuperHeat
40 Subcool
50 Suction
115 Liquid
Outdoor Temp 60

I am thinking for sure the Suction and Liquid Numbers are pressures not temperatures

BaldLoonie · Dec 26, 2015

Beer can cold isn't always right.

That's the trouble with checking the charge in cold weather with no load. This spring tell them to ask for a service call when it is 75 out. Mismatched equipment can be hard to charge even in good conditions let alone improper weather for A/C work.

beenthere · Dec 26, 2015

wilcharl said:
So I dug out three more tickets. One was a trouble ticket for no cooling and they replaced the cap. For the temperatures/pressures they wrote 7 6 5 4 3 2 (lovely)

Another one has

SUC 46
LIQ 110
Outdoor Temp 60 degrees
(nothing for subcooling or super heat)

The other ticket has

16 SuperHeat
40 Subcool
50 Suction
115 Liquid
Outdoor Temp 60

I am thinking for sure the Suction and Liquid Numbers are pressures not temperatures

Pressure wise, they are not even close to looking okay.

Temp wise, they aren't good, but they are closer then if he would be pressures.

wilcharl · Dec 27, 2015

So I continue to be disappointed with these guys..

They charged quite a few dollars in addition to the PM cost to wash the condenser coil. It specifically said "no chemicals used" on the ticket. When I was a helper in college, washing coils was always part of our PM. So another thing, their previous unit allegedly had a burnout. Attached is a photo of the handywork of the installer. Looks like they put red spraypaint on the suction line filter after going to town torching it. I can remember in college when we had burnouts (years ago) we would do an R-11 flush and would install filters on both lines, but we tended to mount them inside by the evaporator.

I am not sure what if any flush they did, but at least they did install a suction line filter.

I guess the ticket that put me over the edge was the one where the tech wrote 7 6 5 4 3 in the blocks for the temperatures on the Superheat/Subcool. Hopefully they dont have any more cooling days this winter and come late April/May we can have it serviced on a day hotter then 40 degrees. Another funny ticket I found was for a furnace PM done on an 80 degree day in September.

Really really makes me wonder about these guys

beenthere said:
Pressure wise, they are not even close to looking okay.

Temp wise, they aren't good, but they are closer then if he would be pressures.

doug1111 · Dec 27, 2015

wilcharl - Cash in on the service contract. Use that $$ towards new system. wilcharl to install -when weather around 70*???

wilcharl · Dec 27, 2015

doug1111 said:
wilcharl - Cash in on the service contract. Use that $$ towards new system. wilcharl to install -when weather around 70*???

My thoughts exactly... My parents think they are doing the right thinking getting it serviced 2x a year.. but this is what they get... They are going to contact a respected independent tech mid April/May and get a real assessment done and go from there

doug1111 · Dec 27, 2015

A real assessment pending your area $ or more they're going to tell you system has some issues and it's OLD need to be replaced

wilcharl · Dec 27, 2015

doug1111 said:
A real assessment pending your area $ or more they're going to tell you system has some issues and it's OLD need to be replaced

Likely the case on the AC, but my other concern is the 3 year old furnace . Even though it came with a detailed commissioning report I question both the install and the PMs on it.

doug1111 · Dec 27, 2015

They have been dealing with a company that don't care about their customers also pencil whipping the paperwork and not doing their job

beenthere · Dec 27, 2015

Prices removed.

doug1111 · Dec 27, 2015

wilcharl - the 3 year old furnace any pics??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEWEGYecF68 Think about heat pump when replacing A/C system.

wilcharl · Dec 28, 2015

doug1111 said:
wilcharl - the 3 year old furnace any pics??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEWEGYecF68 Think about heat pump when replacing A/C system.

I just took a few photos and they should be on the Wall of Shame:

Some things I found:

1) No duct transition from the Space-guard to the furnace
2) Liqui-tite ran from existing switch dangling
3) Handi-box screwed to top of furnace with one screw on angle
4) The big one... The drip leg might as well be non-existent. It is horizontal on an angle with a piece of flex coming off the gas shut off valve ...

I wrote a long letter to the vendor and am in touch with an independent pro about making things right...

wilcharl · Dec 30, 2015

So hope is the installer will at least correct the installation issues . Shouldn't a transition be between the much larger space guard and the furnace instead of filling the gap with sheet metal ?

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Visiting Parents for Christmas - Limited AC

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JES

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BaldLoonie

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