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I saw that. Read the comments. No one who replied is convinced that it was a refrigerant explosion. I understand there is a risk in any thing you do. But the reality is that when I got in this house, it was a disaster. The entire HVAC system had been redone before I purchased the hosue in 2002. The installer, whose name I will not mention, had the heat vent touching the beams under the house. One of them is scorched pretty bad. They didn't use any sealant in the joints of the Natural gas lines. As soon as you got under the house there was an odor of natural gas. It was seeping into the crawl space with an open pilot light on the water heater. I had to take every single gas pipe apart and re do it. You want to talk about an explosive device. The installer had run a flexible gas line through the furnace cabinet. None of the ac lines were soldered or brazed. They were all assembled with some sort of metal adhesive. I have absolutely no idea how they have held the pressure this long. If I go in any of my neighbor's houses, it's all the same crap.

At least one time every summer on the first day I leave for work my wife calls and says the AC is broken. 4 times in the past I have called someone out to fix it, and inevitably I'm out there again 2 months later fixing whatever they screwed up. Last year I called someone I trusted to have them come out and fill the refrigerant. Turns out he was out of town and passed the job off to someone else who overfilled it. After 4 days I came back and found the compressor vibrating violently and it wasn't cooling worth a crap. I had to let off at least a lb of refrigerant to get it back to normal pressure. That's $ down the drain. I'm surprised it didn't tear the compressor apart. There is no risk of me getting refused service, because I've learned my lesson, don't call anyone and figure it out yourself. Whatever I put in there, it's safer now than it ever has been.

Kurt
Ok........then what are you doing here?
 
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I think in a few years a hydrocarbon refrigerant will be the norm for the hvac industry. We will all look back on posts like this and laugh about how ridiculous we made it out to be (like all the posts of POE and MO mixing into a sludge and ruining components). We run copper propane lines all over places that are connected to 100s-1000s of lbs tanks that could rupture. At least with an hvac system it's only going to be a few lbs, sure it'll be at a higher pressure but that should just make it displace quicker. A blown peckerhead would be a sight to see but should burn out fairly quickly. I'm not condoning the use of it because it's not approved for use in hvac systems in the US, just stating my opinion.

To the OP, this is not a DIY site so you won't find the answer you're looking for here. Good luck.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
Ok........then what are you doing here?
It's like every other forum. There is always one or two guys on there who have been in a particular profession for 50 years and know the science. Most techs are very familiar with R22 and 410, and just through experience are able to do a good job getting the pressure right from experience. There is nothing wrong with that. I have a strong fundamental appreciation for those people in this world who learn how to do something well and work hard in an unnapreciate profession. The odds of getting good help by randomly calling service professionals in my area has proved to be inneffective. In this environment you hit a great number of people at one time and the odds are higher of getting the information you need.

Since I started this thread I have found the information I was looking for. My experimentation had yielded the correct gas volume in the first place. At the time I didn't understand why, but now it makes sense. Home AC definitely has more variables than automotive ac. Out of respect for your no DIY policy, I won't got into anymore detail than that.

Despite not getting the information I needed, I have enjoyed the discussion.

Kurt
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
I think in a few years a hydrocarbon refrigerant will be the norm for the hvac industry. We will all look back on posts like this and laugh about how ridiculous we made it out to be (like all the posts of POE and MO mixing into a sludge and ruining components). We run copper propane lines all over places that are connected to 100s-1000s of lbs tanks that could rupture. At least with an hvac system it's only going to be a few lbs, sure it'll be at a higher pressure but that should just make it displace quicker. A blown peckerhead would be a sight to see but should burn out fairly quickly. I'm not condoning the use of it because it's not approved for use in hvac systems in the US, just stating my opinion.

To the OP, this is not a DIY site so you won't find the answer you're looking for here. Good luck.
I'm not sure if this is true or not. It has become the normal in many places around the world. When I first read about this EF-22a stuff, I found a 5 or 6 page thread on this website talking about the dangers. One of the things everyone seemed to harp on was that the fact that home AC systems do not have sparkless electrics and explosion proof components and therefore could not be compared to the industrial equipment that you might find at say Coca Cola. I knew that in some places in southern europe and Asia they were using hydrocarbon refrigerant in homes. I was very surprised to find that they were using the exact same components with the hydrocarbon refrigerant that they use over here with R22. They don't modify anything. For those of you who haven't seen a compressor run on 22a, it is a thing of interest. Not that I would necessarily take the manufacturers word for it, but ecofreeze told me that 22a would be much easier on the components because it is so light. My compressor runs whisper quiet now. When I was initially filling it, I didn't even here it come on; the fan was running, and all of a sudden the pressure on the high side started to rise.

For comparison sake, going into the same cabinet is a high pressure high volume natural gas line with a limitless supply off flammable gas. It is also in a steel line which is more likely to corrode. I have always been leary of natural gas, since my great aunt was blown out of her second story window from a natural gas leak. It is not only near the same high voltage components, it feeds into an area that is designed to ignite. Once a year, I go down into my crawlspace and scoot around on my back with a squirt bottle of soapy water looking for leaks.

I am still not convined the 22a is the way to go. From what I have read, 410 is still more efficient. It's also cheaper. I will probably only get a few more years out of this compressor. I have kept the original 410 expansion valve that came with the evaporator core. When the time comes that this compressor no longer wants to keep going, I can swap back in the 410 valve, buy a new compressor, and fill it up with 410.

Kurt
 
that HIGH PRESSURE LIMITLESS gas supply line has a max pressure of only 2 psi...

yes, the amount is massively higher, but the likelyhood of failure is substantially lower on the gas line... with the lower pressures...
 
I am still not convined the 22a is the way to go. From what I have read, 410 is still more efficient. It's also cheaper. I will probably only get a few more years out of this compressor. I have kept the original 410 expansion valve that came with the evaporator core. When the time comes that this compressor no longer wants to keep going, I can swap back in the 410 valve, buy a new compressor, and fill it up with 410.

Kurt
oh... and changing JUST the compressor is not going to solve your issue for an upgrade either...
 
So I can just use propane as a refrigerant now? Is that what I am hearing here? Four Washingtons per pound or whatever it is now? Regular BBQ stuff OK?

I can hear it now: Honey it's going to be burgers or A/C for the BBQ - which one do you want because you can't have both on a holiday weekend? <g>
 
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It's like every other forum. There is always one or two guys on there who have been in a particular profession for 50 years and know the science. Most techs are very familiar with R22 and 410, and just through experience are able to do a good job getting the pressure right from experience. There is nothing wrong with that. I have a strong fundamental appreciation for those people in this world who learn how to do something well and work hard in an unnapreciate profession.

The odds of getting good help by randomly calling service professionals in my area has proved to be ineffective.

In this environment you hit a great number of people at one time and the odds are higher of getting the information you need.
.....
Despite not getting the information I needed, I have enjoyed the discussion. Kurt
I sympathize with you concerning not finding good resi-HVAC technicians; it shouldn't be that way & we need to work to change that situation.

Many of us have done nearly as much work fixing what others didn't fix or screwed-up...than running new calls.

The HVAC consumer/customer deserves things be done right on their first call...

I truly feel bad for HVAC consumers; they pay good money to get help with their ailing systems & far too many times the service person does not know squat when it comes to locating & fixing virtually any of the problems; on numerous calls there are a number of problems that need to be called to the attention of & explained to the customer so they can make an informed decision...

Many need a thorough reeducation with a retraining of their technical trade skill levels...
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
oh... and changing JUST the compressor is not going to solve your issue for an upgrade either...
Compressor and condensor unit. The whole cabinet is what I meant to imply. My old evaporator case was sealed. The new one has an access panel, so I can change the expansion valve without taking down and taking it all apart.

Kurt
 
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