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Why DIY is necessary.

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#21 ·
first off
that electrical outlet can not be in that chase
the wire running through the grille frame has to be moved also

can not have wires in a return or outlets

that chase should be metal or duct board
the opening unless the system is max 2 ton need to be bigger

the return in the basement instead of flex should be metal also

why are you paying these guys for if you are going to do the work

if the roofer drops off the chingles and forgets to come back are you going to put them on and pay him

same with the rocker and anyone else
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
tinknocker service tech said:
first off
that electrical outlet can not be in that chase
the wire running through the grille frame has to be moved also

can not have wires in a return or outlets

that chase should be metal or duct board
the opening unless the system is max 2 ton need to be bigger

the return in the basement instead of flex should be metal also

why are you paying these guys for if you are going to do the work

if the roofer drops off the chingles and forgets to come back are you going to put them on and pay him

same with the rocker and anyone else
Click to expand...
The drywall no separates the outlet from the return air chase.
You are correct, the wire will have to be moved - one way or another.
The chase is now drywall - which meets code.
The system is 2 ton.
Flex duct return in the basement meets code. It isn't my preferred answer, but it will work. If it causes me problems, I know how to replace it and I will.

I can get on my high horse and complain, or I can get the house built. Every problem that crops up has a different solution, but the goal is always to get the house built right, on budget, and as soon as possible.

It was faster to fix it today than call them Monday morning and schedule another service call. It also appeared to be the most likely approach to an answer that didn't have leaks between the return air duct and the attic.
 
#24 ·
I do not like to use a chase as a duct. BUT, if it's gonna be sheet rocked on the outside why must he line the inside?

You need to get a 14" X whatever return grill, the frame you have installed is hanging over out of the chase. At least that's how it appears in the pic , I may be wrong.
 
#25 ·
i think it would have been simpler to just run a lenth of 14in pipe up the chase to a return box the size of the grille being used

this way it is sealed and self contianed and imo a better job

but that is how i would have done doesnt mean it has to be that way
 
#26 ·
paul42 said:
I'm the builder on this job.
Click to expand...
When building you assemble a crew based upon many facets, and I suspect that you have very little experience in this area, hence, the reason that you are running into issues with your HVAC contractor. I have a great deal of experience in contracts ranging from the very simple to the hundred million plus, and albeit there is the legal component to the contract a contract is more powerful if both parties understand what needs to be achieved versus going to court should something goes wrong. You chose the wrong contractor or you are conveying your expectations incorrectly; I also believe I know why and would not be placing blame completely on your contractor.

paul42 said:
I never cuss at anybody. I go out of my way to never irritate my subs - sometimes way too far out of my way, but that is my personality and I'm happy with it.
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Cursing, and irritation has nothing to do with a good construction job—it’s experience.

paul42 said:
The HVAC contractor will never know that I'm not happy with this part of the task. It is something I can fix and that is pretty much done.
Click to expand...
Getting the right crew together to build "your vision" will do you very little good if the cannot convey to your crew your vision in a manner that they will build to—this is a very difficult thing to do, and very few are good at doing it.

paul42 said:
There are also lots of DIY homeowners that haven't got a clue. I'm not one of them.
Click to expand...
I find this a bit arrogant. This forum has strict rules on DIY of which you have surpassed, and are still allowed to post.

paul42 said:
I checked, and the installer is within code - barely.
Click to expand...
Then it is still within code compliance. Again, your vision does not align with your contractor’s as you either chose the wrong contractor or you are not properly conveying your expectations.

Hopefully, you will not take this post wrong as it is not meant to be derogatory.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Craftsman said:
When building you assemble a crew based upon many facets, and I suspect that you have very little experience in this area, hence, the reason that you are running into issues with your HVAC contractor. I have a great deal of experience in contracts ranging from the very simple to the hundred million plus, and albeit there is the legal component to the contract a contract is more powerful if both parties understand what needs to be achieved versus going to court should something goes wrong. You chose the wrong contractor or you are conveying your expectations incorrectly; I also believe I know why and would not be placing blame completely on your contractor.


Cursing, and irritation has nothing to do with a good construction job—it’s experience.


Getting the right crew together to build "your vision" will do you very little good if the cannot convey to your crew your vision in a manner that they will build to—this is a very difficult thing to do, and very few are good at doing it.


I find this a bit arrogant. This forum has strict rules on DIY of which you have surpassed, and are still allowed to post.


Then it is still within code compliance. Again, your vision does not align with your contractor’s as you either chose the wrong contractor or you are not properly conveying your expectations.

Hopefully, you will not take this post wrong as it is not meant to be derogatory.
Click to expand...
So far, I consider the issues I am having with my HVAC contractor to be a minor inconvenience. I fixed the return air duct to my satisfaction.

I spoke with at least 7 different HVAC contractors. One came back with a quote in a reasonable amount of time. A second one came back and offered to make a quote - about 5 weeks later. My house is very different from anything they had worked with before, and most were not comfortable doing something that out of the ordinary. So, I had very little choice in contractors.

I did some more research on my code books. The 2003 IRC is worded such that it might have passed that. There is no way that it would pass the 2003 IECC code that Fort Worth also uses. I think that meeting code is a reasonable expectation.

I am a very tolerant person, but I have very little patience for incompetence. At this point in the construction loan, all delays are expensive. Any fixes they might implement were going to cost me time and therefore money. So, I fixed it myself.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
mark beiser said:
Don't rely on the connection between the sheet rock and wall studs for a positive air seal in a chase like that, it will leak.

IMO, it should be totally against code to build an unlined chase, that relies on the drywall to make it "air tight".
Click to expand...
The chase is lined with dry wall, and with a little over half a gallon of mastic and 7 tubes of caulk to seal it with.
 
#33 ·
paul42 said:
The chase is lined with dry wall, and with a little over half a gallon of mastic and 7 tubes of caulk to seal it with.
Click to expand...
That's fine.

All to often building cavities used as return chases rely on the drywall on the outside of the chase as the air seal. They virtually always pull air from places you don't want it.
I'm actually going to be lining a couple of chases with ductboard today that were built like that 20 years ago.
They look like the original installers did a lot of work on them at the time the house was built, but blower door testing revealed that they leak like a sieve.
 
#34 ·
paul42 said:
The chase is lined with dry wall, and with a little over half a gallon of mastic and 7 tubes of caulk to seal it with.
Click to expand...
We saw pics of your problem, can we now see pics of what you did to solve the problem?

I'm with the guy who suggested a run of round pipe between the top and bottom collars inside the chase. Seems like a more sure fix...and unless I'm not seeing it right in my head...how'd you line the inside of that chase and get drywall on the fourth side on from the outside?
 
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Discussion starter · #35 ·
shophound said:
We saw pics of your problem, can we now see pics of what you did to solve the problem?

I'm with the guy who suggested a run of round pipe between the top and bottom collars inside the chase. Seems like a more sure fix...and unless I'm not seeing it right in my head...how'd you line the inside of that chase and get drywall on the fourth side on from the outside?
Click to expand...
I have some pictures at home, but it is hard to tell what is going on from them. I will have to try and get some better shots.

The fourth side took some thought. It was put up in shorter sections, working from above as I went. I used the two 10" x 20" return vent openings at the top for access to the last piece on the fourth side and to seal everything at the top. The rest was sealed as I went.
I suspect I still have some mastic in my hair.
 
#36 ·
paul42 said:
I suspect I still have some mastic in my hair.
Click to expand...
:D

Know the feeling...maybe not in my hair, but that stuff is tenacious once it gets on you and dries.

I wouldn't recommend trying to pull it off...might be better to go to the barber and get a buzz cut instead. :D
 
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#37 ·
Why DIY is necessary:


Because everyone has a purpose in life.........








































































even if it's to be a BAD example! ;)

all the best, Irish
 
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Discussion starter · #38 ·
I had some email conversations with my hvac contractor working on adding a wired remote for the mini-split to the contract. While emailing back and forth, I wrote and told him that I was "very unimpressed" with the job the installer did on the return air chase. His response was that was the way they always did it and they have never had any problems passing inspection

Which just confirmed that my decision to do it myself was the only answer.

Some shots after I lined the chase with drywall, mastic and caulk.
The first picture is an overall view from the main room.
The second picture is a closer view of the return vent opening from the main room.
The third picture is a close view of the return vent opening from the side room.
The fourth picture is of the back side of the chase from the closet.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
building inspections today

Framing failed, several small items to fix
Plumbing passed, but still has a few items to fix.
Mechanical passed - no write-ups at all. Inspector seemed impressed with my duct work - or at least I can pretend he was!
 
#40 ·
paul42 said:
Some shots after I lined the chase with drywall, mastic and caulk.
The first picture is an overall view from the main room.
The second picture is a closer view of the return vent opening from the main room.
The third picture is a close view of the return vent opening from the side room.
The fourth picture is of the back side of the chase from the closet.
Click to expand...
Fourth pic...looks like a fur-down was framed for a return...in the closet? I also see potential nailing problem for ceilingdrywall at that location...no nailer adjacent to fur-down, and nearest joist is at least 12-16" away. Drywall will essentially "float" in this corner, and over time the seams may split or crack.

Pics showing return air openings...why the obstructions? Looks like drywall in one pic and a framing member in another. If the structural load can be or is transferred around that framing member, then IMO it would be better gone. Same for protruding sheet of drywall in other return air opening. It needs all the free area possible...looks a bit light as is.
 
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