Re: Multiple estimates
Hello,
I came here looking for some reasonably objective info to help me choose between the bids I'd received, and learned a lot from many of you - thank you!
I read this thread because a model number search brought it up, and joined the forum just to add my thoughts to this...
I can understand the frustration of those who've complained about customers getting multiple bids and "wasting their time", but what is the average uninformed (or only slightly informed) person to do? Everyone from the BBB to Consumer Reports to state regulators recommend getting at least three estimates for things like A/C, roofing, etc.
Then I come here and learn of all of the evaluations that *should* be done by an A/C company, yet none of the companies that gave me estimates had even suggested any of it. It's not that they told me of what should be done, and what it would cost to do it right, and I was too cheap and turned them down - it was never even mentioned as an option.
So what then should I do? Keep calling companies out to give estimates, until someone gets it right? Aren't I just wasting more people's time?
Here's the condensed (well, semi-condensed {sheepish smile}) version of what happened:
I divide my time between FL and VA, so I'm not here year round. Late last summer, the HP wasn't cooling well, icing inside. Called original installing company, they added freon, found a small leak, said it would need expensive repair, or replace system. It seemed to run fine the rest of the year, so I decided to wait as long as possible. (Hard for me to afford replace or large repair.)
Come back down a few weeks ago, to find system again not working well. Called different (large local) company (who did a system for my brother in law) for a "second opinion" - they say freon level is still good, but compressor is dying. Very expensive compressor replacement, or replace system.
Trane system is 13-14 years old - ok, I'll bite the bullet and replace the system...
So, I asked company who was already there for an estimate - I got a verbal estimate that seemed high, with the pitch that his manager will often make a deal and take some off the price, or maybe do some attic insulation for free with system purchase/install. Seems this company does this also. This made me wary - nothing in writing, and sounding like a bad used car salesman - with the manager in the back office making deals and throwing in some free undercoating on a car...
Oh yeah, and he also spent at least half the time trying to sell me on a very expensive air cleaner...
So, then I call the company (medium size local) that put in the current system, and ask for an estimate on replacing it. They come out, look at the tag on the inside unit, look at the tag on the outside unit, then sit down and write down an estimate. He's gone within ten minutes, without asking me any questions, or looking at anything else in the house. His estimate is nearly $2000 less than the first guy, for what seems like a similar system. (3 ton single stage 15 SEER Carrier, v. 3 ton single stage 15 SEER Trane from the first guy.)
Ok, now I'm even more confused...
So, I call a third company (medium size local, don't know anything about them other than they've been in business here for decades) for an estimate on replacing the system. Guy comes out, looks at the old system, has me run it, takes temp at all the ducts in the house, asks how well it's worked for me up till now, how long did I plan to stay in the house, etc, etc. Asks habits, thermostat settings, etc. Suggests variable speed AH to remove more humidity, especially when I'm gone and thermostat is set at higher temp. (First I've heard of it, sounds very useful!) Writes estimates for two different systems (Trane and Amana), and explains the differences. (Both 15 SEER 3 ton single stage.) His prices are within about $100 of the second guy, but will do much more for it - include the variable speed AH, change the lines v. flushing them, change the breaker, etc.
Sounds pretty good overall, and I do have my recommended three estimates at this point - but that first verbal one was weird and didn't seem legit, so I figure to play it safe and get one more...
Call fourth company (again, medium size local, been here for while). Guy comes out, does much more than the second guy, but a little less than the third. Writes estimates for two systems (both 3 ton single stage 15 SEER - Trane and Carrier). Comparing his Trane estimate to the third guy's Trane estimate, and adding in everything this guy will charge extra for (variable speed AH, change lines, change breaker, etc) to get it as close to "apples and apples" as possible, he's about $1400 higher than the third guy.
Well, then I guess I've done all I can with the estimates, now to do a little hunting online - see if there's a trend in repair problems with any of them, or any knowledgeable objective advice that would give me a good reason not to go with what seemed like the best of the three - both in price, and in the time/effort taken to at least make a better guesstimate (as I know now) of the best system for my needs.
Which is what led me here yesterday...
While I'm reading, a friend calls - knows I'm getting estimates, and insists I call a friend of a friend who recently moved here and started his own A/C business, and supposedly does good work. Ok, I've nothing against "the little guy", I'll give a small operation a chance... He comes out, looks at the inside and outside units, asks me how well it's worked for me (fine till now), then tells me I need a 3.5 ton. Tells me that he's been doing this since he was 12 years old, and the new units are in essence rigged to meet the SEER numbers and don't put out the same cooling, and that I *have* to go bigger. He calls back later with a verbal estimate of about $1100 less then the estimate I was ready to take (from the third company), for a 3.5 ton Goodman.
No thanks. Leaving aside the brand issues and how they apply to my particular circumstances (this is already too long!), I have learned enough in my reading to know that one of the side effects of a too large system is not removing enough humidity, the exact opposite of what I'm hoping to actually improve a little with the variable speed AH.
So, no, these multiple estimates haven't just been about price. That is a major issue for me (enough so that I can't afford to add hundreds of dollars to the cost of the replacement, to have someone do all of the evaluations that "should" be done) but it's not the only one...
In the end, I got three estimates that made at least some reasonable logical sense, I spent a day reading various sources of info online (this forum being the overall most helpful to me), and tried to apply what I'd learned to my own circumstances, in deciding which system to buy - then made sure the installers were certified/factory trained employees. I've done about all I can afford to do, and then I rolled the dice... {shrug}
Perhaps, in a more perfect world, there would be a compromise that was fair to both customers and companies - one that might work would be A/C consultants that did nothing *but* the evaluations/recommendations. You paid someone to come out and objectively tell you what you needed, who didn't have a stake in selling you anything. Then you took that info and comparison shopped the installers by quality of work/price/etc. By phone/website/salesperson/whatever... Then the customer feels confident they are getting what they need, and can more easily shop around - without wasting the time of the more highly trained people... More efficient for everyone... Just a thought...
Well, if you managed to read all this, thank you for your patience/interest! Maybe, for those of you in the business, it might temper some of your frustration - to have a little insight into how frustrating this can be for the customer as well... This past week should be a horror story of how bad things can be out here - but it is, I'm afraid, much too common...
It's ironic, when you stop to think about it - customers are criticized for getting multiple estimates, because we are afraid of being taken advantage of by contractors who will either sell us what we don't need, or overcharge us, or both. Then we come here to get better informed, and learn that we have in fact already been taken advantage of (in the estimating process)...
I thank all of you who have shared your knowledge, and your knowledgeable opinions - it's been educational, and much appreciated! I doubt I'll post again, unless someone has a question about what I've written.
Take care...
