"A" vs "B" nozzles

kdt · Mar 19, 2007

I have a Buderus G115-28 boiler with a Beckett AFG oil burner. It has always worked fine. The specs say to use a .65 X 60 degree B nozzle. The oil company tech was here today for the yearly cleaning. He replaced this nozzle with a .65 X 60 degree A nozzle. He said it would not make a difference. I want to be sure.

Is there a significant difference between the "A" nozzle and the "B" nozzle? Should I have a "B" nozzle put in? Any advice would be appreciated!

gasguy · Mar 19, 2007

Proper nozzle size/angle/pattern is very important to the efficiency, reliability and longevity of the unit. Unless there was operation problems with the factory specd nozzle, and he is a very experienced oil tech, he should not be messing around changing from factory recomendations. Going from a 'B' (solid spray) to an 'A' (hollow spray) can seriously affect the reliability and performance of the burner. Find out if he changed patterns because of performance issues (and find out what he thinks they are) or if that's just what he had in the truck.

kdt · Mar 20, 2007

I think it was what was available on the truck, as there were no performance issues with the burner. I noticed the red cap after he installed it (the prior nozzle had a blue cap), so I looked at the numbers on the cap and that is when I saw the "A" rather that "B". I pointed out to him that the specs called for a "B" nozzle and his reply was that an "A" would work and the "manual doesn't always tell you what will work."
I would rather not have an improper nozzle for one year just because that what was on the truck. Should I insist that it be replaced?

gasguy · Mar 20, 2007

If he can prove to you by means of combustion analysis, smoke testing, draft measurements etc. that the new nozzle is operating within manufacturers specs, then leave it. If you ask and he answers "I go by eye/sound/smell/rule of thumb/use the force etc." get the proper nozzle put in. IMHO the new nozzle will PROBABLY work OK, but may not give the best efficiency. I never change from the mfg. recomended nozzle unless I cannot get the unit running properly and have contacted them to get their input.

icyflame · Mar 20, 2007

Going from a solid to hollow spray can adversly effect the system. You can melt down the flame retentsion ring and melt the end of the air tube. Burning the tip of the nozzle and electrodes are very possible also. Not to mention, creating "New" hot spot in the fire box.You can bank on this..."if it didn't matter", they wouldn't make the differnt types of nozzles. It would certainly simplify things. You need to look at your invoice and see how much you paid him to screw up your boiler. PS...It's all about flame pattern and design!!

kdt · Mar 20, 2007

Thanks for the responses. My oil company was responsive and sent out another tech to change the nozzle. I wish I could say that I was pleased by the experience, but unfortunately it turned out pretty badly. The next tech doing the work was not honest and his customer service skills were very poor. When he went to put in the new nozzle, he had trouble finding it in his toolbox. He then said "I grabbed the nozzle before I left, as I saw this job ticket when I left and thought I would get this job. I must have left it in the truck." He came back in about 1 minute later and started putting the nozzle in. I looked at it and noticed that he was putting in an "A" nozzle. The whole point of the trip was to put in a "B" nozzle. I pointed this out to him and he said "Boy, I can't read these things anymore without my glasses" and went back out to the truck. He was gone for about 7-10 minutes, looking for the nozzle throughout the truck. He came back in with 65, 60 degree "ES" nozzle. It had a different shaped head than the one that was there initially. I asked him if he was sure it would work, and he said "I've been doing this for 30 years and I know it will work." I basically didn't have much trust in the situation because of the above comments, especially the "I grabbed the right nozzle before I left" comment. I had to run out to pick my son up at school at and was gone for 15 minutes. When I came back, he was getting ready to run an efficiency test. He then showed me one that he said he had "just run", but the time on the slip was over an hour before he got to my house and my boiler temp was very low and had not been running. Perhaps the time was off on the device, but the numbers were very different than the numbers from the day before. Things then got pretty nasty. I told him I simply wanted to get the right equipment installed and I didn't appreciate that I had to catch his mistake of putting an "A" nozzle back in (I'm assuming it was a mistake) and the fact that he lied about bringing a "B" nozzle to the job. He got pretty nasty at this point, and I asked him to leave the house. I didn't feel I could trust his work and I didn't appreciate the way he was treating me as a customer. He basically said "I don't give a s..." and "I feel sorry for the next person that has to deal with you."

Question: Is an ES nozzle the same as a B nozzle? It did say “solid” on the nozzle, but the shape was pretty different. The specs call for a Hago nozzle, so this just may have been a different brand.

docholiday · Mar 20, 2007

Time to find a new oil company.. Sorry you are having to deal with their poor customer service. But I suspect the ES was the nozzle you wanted, just made by another manufacturer.

david m seible · Mar 21, 2007

changing from b to a nozzles

a nozzle has more stable condition than the b nozzle.type a nozzles producea spray pattern which delivers fine droplets outside the primiter of the main spraycone and can cause less problems when outside tempretures drop well below freezzing and cause the oil to thicken.as long as the size, and the pressure was not changed you should not have a problem.just make sure you have it tuned up every year

kdt · Mar 21, 2007

Thanks Doc. Beckett recommends a HAGO .65 60° “B” nozzle for my burner/boiler combination. Your chart sparked me to do some more research and I found the HAGO site that outlines their nozzles. Quoting from their site:
“B” Solid Cone - Black Caps
Designed to give optimum combustion efficiency on high static pressure flame retention burners which specifically a "B" pattern. As compared to our "ES" pattern, somewhat more fuel is concentrated towards the center of the spray.

"ES" - Solid Cone - Green Caps
Our original solid cone series for low flow rates. Available for applications specifying a solid "ES" pattern.

Based on the info from Hago, I think I should insist on the “B” nozzle from Hago.

propmanage · Mar 21, 2007

Not happy

All and all you can insist on the manufactures nozzle but remember that nozzle may need to be changed due to the way the unit runs and the tech makes that decision. That’s why they have so many size and shapes so we can adjust the flam to burn efficiently. The efficiency test is the way to check and this should be done yearly and the tag put on the unit and it should reflect an accurate test. You have good reason to feel uncomfortable about this type of communication with your service company. Not having the correct nozzle can happen once in a while and it should reflect that on the tag. But after you requested it changed you should have got what you wanted and you did not. Better luck next time or get some one that will remember to bring you the parts needed. The thing I don’t under stand is that nozzle is one most techs would have in the truck.

icyflame · Mar 21, 2007

propmanage said:
All and all you can insist on the manufactures nozzle but remember that nozzle may need to be changed due to the way the unit runs and the tech makes that decision. That’s why they have so many size and shapes so we can adjust the flam to burn efficiently. The efficiency test is the way to check and this should be done yearly and the tag put on the unit and it should reflect an accurate test. You have good reason to feel uncomfortable about this type of communication with your service company. Not having the correct nozzle can happen once in a while and it should reflect that on the tag. But after you requested it changed you should have got what you wanted and you did not. Better luck next time or get some one that will remember to bring you the parts needed. The thing I don’t under stand is that nozzle is one most techs would have in the truck.

You are only part right...I've adjusted many nozzles, you start off slow and calculate the change. You don't just jump in and change all the details at one time and expect everything to be fine!! Most all my changes occure on old equipment, sometimes a new piece of equipment needs modified...but never just because I didn't have the right one. The first thing I do on a service call is to verify I have the right nozzle and the correct fuel oil filter with me. If not I get them before I take the system out of service.

casturbo · Mar 22, 2007

KDT, please don't blow this very minor difference in nozzle classification out of proportion. In order of precedence of importance with the nozzle for your Buderus, firing rate and nozzle angle is most important, and very last is the spray type. And furthermore, the Hago "B" nozzle is terrible, and I've never seen one instance in my 20+ yrs where that particular spray type nozzle outperformed any other type. It's a nasty super solid loud burning nozzle, in my experience. I am not exaggerating, really. If it were me, I'd would have put in a Delavan .60-60 B or a Hago .60-60 SS. As this boiler can accomodate a long fire, the hollow "H" pattern will likely burn clean, but will be short. It won't burn out anything, won't show any difference in efficiency, and actually should be a quieter flame than any solid type nozzle, especially compared to the nasty bark the "B" Hago typically yields.

propmanage · Mar 22, 2007

You are only part right...

"You don't just jump in and change all the details at one time and expect everything to be fine!! "

I think I was saying the same thing you said? Maybe I just did not explain it
I do agree they should have checked to see that they had the correct nozzle

icyflame · Mar 23, 2007

propmanage said:
"You don't just jump in and change all the details at one time and expect everything to be fine!! "

I think I was saying the same thing you said? Maybe I just did not explain it
I do agree they should have checked to see that they had the correct nozzle

Sorry Propmanage i was being distracted as I was reading your post, in fact you articulated yourself very well!

"A" vs "B" nozzles

kdt

gasguy

kdt

gasguy

icyflame

kdt

docholiday

david m seible

kdt

propmanage

icyflame

casturbo

propmanage

icyflame

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